Thoughts on GREECE?

parthenon

What are your thoughts on THIS? 

Oh, wait…..THIS, not that!

                                  Is there a difference?

So, the story is TOO MANY ENTITLEMENTS, right?  And the people said “Hell no, THEY CAN’T GO!”, right?    So, will Greece be out of European Union?   Or will they be in debt beyond help?   Could this happen here?

The ATM lines, banks are running dry, new emergency money from the EU is needed in a couple of days or it’s going to be THIS! (only MUCH worse)

austerity

What are your thoughts?   What should happen next?

Z

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50 Responses to Thoughts on GREECE?

  1. In my humble opinion, I think Greece & its citizens should suffer the consequences of their actions. You are entitled to the fruits of your own labor and only those fruits. The world at large owes them nothing & nothing is what they should get.

  2. jerrydablade says:

    Can it happen here? Z, I think that canary has been has already left the barn. Or is it horses in the coal mine? The current generation here believe entitlements and more and more transferring of wealth is the “American way”. It may not be too long before our ATMs run out of Baklava. In any case, I have never watched that Grease movie, but my wife has about a thousand times.

  3. silverfiddle says:

    It’s been said many times already, but I will repeat it: Pay attention America. This is what it looks like when a nation finally runs out of other people’s money.

    Yes. It can happen here.

  4. Many Greeks were out in the streets — jubilantly celebrating the overwhelming no vote.

    BTW, China, too, is in economic trouble. See my blog post today: “Quotation of the Day.”

  5. SF,
    Americans paying attention to what’s happening over there? Not on your life. Most Americans are too busy updating their status on their social-network sites to see the worldwide economic tsunami bearing down on civilization. Sheesh.

  6. John M. Berger says:

    If the Greeks are unwilling to undergo austerity how will a restructuring of debt work? That society seems to be a classic example of a mentality of living beyond the ability or willingness to produce and expecting others to pay the difference. Why would the EU even want to retain them? I always thought the EU was a very bad Idea in the first place!

  7. fredd says:

    We have het to see the chickens come home to roost, Z. Socialism has failed in several countries (Greece, and its socialist buddies Portugal, Ireland, Spain and if anyone remembers, Cypress). It has also failed a few American cities (Detroit leads the leagues here, but remember Stockton and Santa Barbara).

    We haven’t seen these societies suffer, yet. They are zombie communities: dead, but still publishing their local newspapers, still powering most (but not all) of their street lights, and still fielding police, fire and garbage men (if only a shadow of their former ranks).

    Each one of these entities are still functioning because they have reached out to larger, deeper pockets to bail them out, and they all have succeeded. Greece is appealing for yet more loans, and the deep pockets have so far come through. Detroit, also, is still getting loans, having debts postponed, and is lurching along in bankruptcy in its zombie-like stupor.

    NONE of them has paid the ultimate price for their drunken sailor spending, sloth, and gluttony. But as Herbert Stein once famously quipped, if something cant continue, it won’t continue. We just have to give these socialist zombies time to finally take their last gasp.

    And then watch the entitled socialists take to the streets and demand that somebody, ANYBODY, give them their checks, cheese, Obamaphones, whatever. When they discover that there ain’t no more free money regardless of how many people they stab with their pitch forks, we will then see how socialism works in the end.

    And it won’t be pretty.

  8. Mustang says:

    The leftist mindset would be comical were it not for the fact of serious consequences. Take the petulant child and enable him or her to act out a particularly undesirable behavior. Transfer that mindset to a nation whose economy is roughly equivalent to Oklahoma. So of course the Greeks voted to renege on its financial commitments. Why should the Greeks behave as responsible citizens if they don’t have to? But we have already seen this going on here in the USA … not states, but most assuredly large cities. Who ran these cities into the ground? To what purpose? The behavior of Greek citizens is exactly the way people in Detroit behaved and with a similar result. Surely, leftism is a mental disorder.

  9. John M. Berger says:

    @ AOW,
    ” Most Americans are too busy updating their status on their social-network sites to see the worldwide economic tsunami bearing down on civilization. ”

    AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. “PREVIEWS OF COMING ATTRACTIONS”.

  11. FB says:

    This is what happens when a lot of people work for gov, when high taxes make people escape taxes, etc… France will be next in a few years if they don’t fix their structural problems. The German taxpayers must be sick and tired of those countries.

  12. Lisa says:

    Don’t know if anyone recalls but a few weeks back Obama was asked about it and his answer was “Greece has to start collectin’ some taxes” Geez! Answer to everything.
    Isn’t he just brilliant? …..not

  13. I just saw on Fox News Trump is leading in NH and Iowa polls! Go ahead and laugh, folks. I said in the beginning I liked the guy. First, what is happening in Greece gives The Donald ammunition. Secondly, he is NOT a politician and does NOT need the money so isn’t in it for that reason. Like Reagan, he also is well known, so isn’t doing it to gain fame. HE CARES ABOUT AMERICA OTHERWISE HE WOULDN’T BE RUNNING. At least that’s my take.

  14. cube says:

    Celebrating their freebies…

  15. John M. Berger says:

    @Mal,
    Notwithstanding Trump’s bombastic and less than diplomatic delivery he nails a lot of problems that [we] can no longer afford ignore. I believe that he probably has solutions and if he would only come down to earth and cogently but calmly explain things he may well maintain some traction; at least with conservatives. Who knows; he might even be able to garner support from enough of those, so called, ‘undecided’ voters to become a formidable deterrent to those who would continue on our certain path to self-destruction! On the other hand [he] would certainly solidify the hard core left but, who cares, [they] will never relent anyway. At this juncture color me interested.

  16. Kid says:

    Greece is a 15 year old with unlimited credit and no accountability, and they’re proud of it. I hear that many work for the government, are overpaid and retire at 57 with substantial benefits. I don’t want to send them a penny. I think they should be cut loose, create their own currency once again and go into hyper-inflation mode.

    I also believe the EU was doomed to fail.

  17. John, of course you’re right about Trump. I guess what it all comes down to is how he handles himself from this point on. Hopefully, he will get some advice from some professional political group
    on how to conduct himself and not come off as egotistical, but knowledgeable with the know how to get us back on the right track. He has shown his assertiveness. Now he must show his resolve.

  18. bunkerville says:

    I found the Greek jubilation a bit much. Fare thee well, Greece. You had a once proud heritage as did we. You shall reap what you have sown. They will look to Turkey and Russia now if the EU does nothing more. Let them try a bit of Sharia law.

  19. John M. Berger says:

    Mal,
    For those who may view Trump as a ruthless, uncaring tycoon it should be remembered that as a CEO type his duty has been to his stake holders (investors, etc.). He will need to emphasize that as President [we] will be the stake holders. I’m afraid that Romney failed to make that distinction, at least effectively. As I see it, another failure of Romney’s was, at least, to outline his plans to get us back on track. He seemed to assume that just because he is who he is all he had to do was say: ‘and I know how to do it’. While I’m sure that he does that lack of specificity didn’t resonate. Trump needs to consider this.

    Z,
    Sorry if I went off-topic; sometimes I can’t help it.

  20. geeez2014 says:

    JMB, what bugs me about Romney is he’s suddenly found his tongue….now that he’s NOT running, he’s pretty articulate and outgoing.

    Mal, Donald “I’m so rich” Trump says the right things (though a little overblown sometimes)l and that’s what’s attracting voters; I am hoping that other candidates get THEIR tongues loosened, less frightened of the media…let the viable candidates now SPEAK TRUTH to this horrible biased media, while Trump’s mouthing off and getting all the negative press. Maybe realistic candidates will get some courage to stop talking so politically correct and telling America what we really need to do………
    which is NOT BECOME GREECE if we can at all help it…we’re already going down that slope.

    Bunkerville, ya…Total jubilation! “Oh boy, I still get MINE and I don’t care WHO’s paying me!” WHAT? !!!

    Kid…EXCELLENT analogy of the teenager…exactly right.
    I’m SO afraid to call my Greek American friend while she’s visiting in Washington State…and I must “Call me when You’ve got a minute” is her last email. She’s a total communist, I swear, and she’ll be saying they just need to tax the rich Greeks harder. I will then have to hang up on her. We get along so well other than POLITICS and FAITH and MORALITY. Frankly, I don’t know what attraction we have as friends but we do !!! I think I have to call her tonight….can’t put it off much longer 😦

    FB….The Germans are very tired of it.
    I know the EU would be a nightmare….and especially the EURO. Mr. Z disagreed with me but had changed his mind by the time he passed away.

    FairWitness..I agree.
    The problem is the very poor elderly … someone does need to help them.

    Jerry, you crack me UP! Don’t look now, but I think MOST ATMs have been fresh out of baklava for a while 🙂

    AOW and SF; If it’s going to happen, it’s going to be now, under Obama. God help us.

    Fredd..you outline a future we MUST escape, but it’s going to take a TOUGH CONSERVATIVE to finally say to all of America “WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS ANYMORE..>GET A GRIP!”

    Mustang…why, indeed? When they have Germany to pay for them?

  21. John, Romney indeed was better qualified than the others running against Trump. What he lacked was political personality and came across as having stage fright, don’t you think? He wasn’t the flamboyant type like Trump, which can also work against him if he doesn’t tone it down a bit. In summary, Trump is our best bet of the field. Heck. He’d probably go to Greece, fire their leader, and straighten them out in the process…………….but not till he opened another hotel near the Acropolis!

  22. A comment that I posted on my blog today, and I will say the same thing here at this thread:

    I have an adult piano student who is retired from the IMF. Yeah, he’s a liberal [from Canada, PhD in Econ]. But he says that there is no way out of this mess that Greece is in without austerity measures. He also decried the last election in Greece, an election which brought full-bore Leftists to power, and they proceeded to run up more debt, which there is little hope of paying back.

    Another thing he told me today: “The IMF is the lender of last resort.” So, if the IMF has cut off Greece’s financial lifelines, unless Greece concedes to some austerity measures, Greece will descend into hyperinflation.

  23. John M. Berger says:

    “John, Romney indeed was better qualified than the others running against Trump. ”
    Indeed and, likewise, those who ran against [him] especially the fraud that prevailed! Greece provides an excellent example for a contender, with superior business acumen, to use against socialists such as the PIG or the Marxist who looms on the horizon.

  24. Thoughts on Greece?
    No.
    OK, well maybe, just as said earlier by others here, Let them suffer the consequences.

  25. Thoughts on Jerry’s thoughts on Greece?
    I never watch that movie either.

  26. Bob says:

    Jerry said, ” I think that canary has been has already left the barn”.

    I love it when someone comes up with a great mixed metaphor. With such skill Jerrydablade effectively says that there is no single metaphor that fully describes the situation. Canary in the coal mine – the first to die (a warning). Horse out of the barn – too late to do anything.

    Greece is the first to die, and the horse is out of the barn meaning that it is too late for most of us. What happens to others will happen to us. So, somehow we have to mix “what goes around, comes around” with other metaphors.

    How about, “The canary is out of the barn, and the horse is coming like a freight train.”

    I don’t believe the impact on the international economy will be a big thing if Greece totally defaults. However, those banks holding Greek debt will have problems. This means that the Europeans will have to find a way to write-off the debt while keeping their own citizenry happy.

    Then, we have Spain and Portugal in trouble. What is it about those Mediterranean countries that they cannot keep their affairs in order? Are the Italians in line for bankruptcy?

    It can eventually happen here. After viewing Watter’s World on the O’Reilly Show, I am convinced that nobody knows any history, and we are committed to repeat all those errors we saw in the twentieth century.

  27. geeez2014 says:

    Mal! Yes, about Romney…that’s why I said what I did…he’s finally NOW opening up like something other than a big oak tree!

    Bob! I didn’t even notice the mixed metaphor…hilarious! I actually used the ‘canary in the mine’ expression the other day, can’t remember WHY!
    I can’t watch Watters’ World anymore…. if I do, i have to watch JEOPARDY! right away to remember there ARE young people who are SMART 🙂

    Ed…I never watched Grease, either……..just a little fun for me to do the post that way.

    AOW: I’m not 100% clear; I believe Greece is so in debt that austerity won’t work without BIG FINANCIAL help from others; SO, was this election the choice of “We’ll help you with your debt IF you set austerity practices into motion?” or “Austerity is the only way YOU (Greece) can get yourselves out of this?”
    I don’t think I’m alone on these questions…I just had lunch with a brilliant girlfriend who asked “Is Greece in financial trouble?”
    Those of us who are news junkies are a rare breed!!

  28. Imp says:

    @Z..”I am hoping that other candidates get THEIR tongues loosened..”

    Too late for that..the PC addled wimps have already painted themselves into a corner…and Trump has rope – a – doped them all…except Cruz.

  29. Imp says:

    Greece…like the US without an Air Force.

  30. FB says:

    . What is it about those Mediterranean countries that they cannot keep their affairs in order? Are the Italians in line for bankruptcy?

    They like to fraud the system. Then their gov usually taxes them to death. So they fraud more.
    On top of that they like vacations a bit too much.

    France is already paying his gov workers using credit cards.

    The country that should be afraid is Germany. This thing can get really ugly if all those countries can’t pay at some point. And when that happens the EU will explode. OR the solution that may take place is a true federal government with countries being absorbed. But I doubt that’ll happen.

  31. geeez2014 says:

    Imp, are you kidding? “Greece…like the US without an Air Force.” It’s the economy of Louisiana…we’ve got a little more going for us than just one Air Force better than Greece 🙂
    And I disagree; I think Trump can loosen tongues… I think he’s very suddenly made many people, not just cons, sit up and notice that what he’s saying is RIGHT.
    That AWFUL shooting of the lovely young woman in S.F. didn’t help the illegal cause.

    Jehmu Green, this morning, was calling illegals “UNDOCUMENTED AMERICANS” She did that twice on FOX and nobody called her on it.
    What the HECK is an UNDOCUMENTED AMERICAN when you’re not even AMERICAN!!!

    FB: Mr. Z used to laugh that Italy’s had approximately 50 governments since WWII and it’s always going to be Italy; he marveled how that country could hold it together with the very loony politics they have there.
    He adored Greece and we had fabulous times there……

    The Liberal friend I mentioned somewhere above, who I’m afraid to talk to because I thought I’d hear nothing but ‘crap’ from her on the Greek situation (her being Greek and owning two houses on Samos), actually emailed me she thinks things won’t improve until the Greeks ‘learn’ (underlined learn)….Knowing Bett, she probably means “try to get MORE welfare” 🙂

  32. geeez2014 says:

    I asked above, but am hoping for an answer…”I’m not 100% clear; I believe Greece is so in debt that austerity won’t work without BIG FINANCIAL help from others; SO, was this election the choice of “We’ll help you with your debt IF you set austerity practices into motion?” or “Austerity is the only way YOU (Greece) can get yourselves out of this?”

    FB..do you know for sure?

  33. Z,
    As I understand the situation, it is this: We’ll help you with your debt IF you set austerity practices into motion?”

  34. Furthermore, the fear is that to let Greece depart the EU threatens the continuance of the EU. Not literally, but psychologically.

  35. Bob says:

    Now that I think about it, the EU will probably do another bail-out. They talk big over there, but don’t back it up. Merkel may be strong enough to resist the pressure, but we shall see. The Greeks believe that they look so pitiful to the rest of the world that they will have to be rescued.

    Here goes the Greek can. Boom! Down the old road. The EU will definitely fail. Deutschmarks for all of Europe? Will Germany finally take over the whole rotten continent without firing a shot this time? If I were Merkel I would not do any rescue without a quid pro quo. I think Angela Merkel is the only European leader with any courage or sense.

  36. geeez2014 says:

    AOW, thanks…..Yes, interesting, isn’t it. Psychologically. Gosh, I HATE the EU….but Mr. Z looked at it as better for Germany. Not anymore!
    Spain and Italy are in fairly bad shape, too…….should get interesting.
    Thanks for the info “IF”….yes, that’s what I’d thought but wasn’t sure.
    It’s a fine line, I think, there….the elderly and jobless (and there are few jobs) really need assistance…but people take advantage of it, as always.

    Bob, Merkel is that, indeed. Except she used to be even STRONGER and has weakened a LOT in the last few years….particularly toward immigration, sadly. They’re dying under the heavy cost of that.
    There’s some talk about some new currency, which would ‘replace’ the dollar or something?: I don’t get it, but I sure don’t like the sound of it. Not here in AMeri ca, but..an international dollar or something? Do you know?

  37. Oddly, it seems the Poles are doing pretty well without the attention Germany gets.
    And nobody talks about them bailing anybody out.

  38. Bob says:

    Here is an excellent article in the NYT about the problem that outlines what Merkel is doing.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/07/world/europe/angela-merkel-faces-monumental-test-of-leadership-after-greek-vote.html?_r=0

  39. Imp says:

    @ED…If I were Poland I’d be very careful and wary of associating too closely with Germany again. Think about it.

  40. geeez2014 says:

    Imp, tell me why you feel Poland and Germany shouldn’t associate too closely.

    Ed, I seriously don’t get what you mean….”without the attention Germany gets”.
    Are the Poles constantly paying for subsidies, etc., like Germany is, or getting hit on for more and more money outside the German borders?

  41. geeez2014 says:

    Bob, that article is extremely good, thanks so much.
    I just keep getting hung up on Greeks blaming BRUSSELS and not THEMSELVES.
    I do believe Merkel got some well deserved time after this Greek election….
    I think she should stick to her guns and not pay anything until real austerity goes into effect….Schaubel is right.

  42. Kid says:

    AND, the Greeks saw this coming 10+ years ago, they did Nothing.

  43. geeez2014 says:

    Kid, GOOD POINT.

  44. Baysider says:

    Some say Greece should leave the EU. Then they are back on the [now worthless] drachma, which will ‘float’ and make their exports cheap, bringing revenue into the country. Forbes points out a major flaw in this thinking, and believe me, Forbes thinks everyone should leave the EU! (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/26/the-reason-austerity-in-greece-didnt-work/)
    “Being out of the euro won’t in fact help all that much. For the point of being out of the euro is that one could have devalued the drachma to achieve that same reduction in export wage rates. But if the economy simply isn’t able to increase exports, just because it doesn’t have companies capable of exporting, then that’s not going to help much.” That’s one ‘structural’ problem with their economy – a lot of small businesses that aren’t in the position to shift to take advantage of imports.

    They can’t stop overspending. It’s easy for us to say ‘let them live with it’ but this is the kind of thing that precedes wars. Forbes had a fantastic article with a well-articulated plan last summer, but I can’t find it to summarize the points. It’s pretty much the opposite of everything they’re doing now, but a real plan – a do-able plan only for those with the fortitude of Maggie Thatcher.

  45. John M. Berger says:

  46. Z: Poland’s economy appears to be doing well, but nobody seems to expect THEM to bail out Greece, the way everyone looks at Germany.

    Imp: I wasn’t suggesting they “get close” to their former oppressors.
    But they are neighbors in the EU.
    And maybe more importantly, NATO.

  47. Bob says:

    Baysider: Thanks for the Forbes link. It is a sobering story.

  48. geeez2014 says:

    John, why did you post that song? Do you know verses are not sung anymore, and that none of the song could be sung again until only recently? They deserve to have a proud an anthem as any country, don’t you think?
    Did you know that “Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles” was never meant to mean “OVER ALL” but actually means “Germany, Germany, over all”….meaning over all the German States that finally became Germany?…that is was GERMANY that was now important, not each state?
    Fascinating.

    Ed, I see what you mean…..Not sure why everyone always looks at Germany…maybe it’s because they’re the strongest (for now) and maybe it’s retribution for their past/ when Poles were FAR more antisemitic than Germans were. Most folks don’t know that. Hungarians, too.
    I’ve been to dinner parties in the Eighties full of Hungarians (friends of Hungarian friends of mine) who denied the HOlocaust at the dinner table. Mr. Z, born and raised in Germany, walked home immediately. I followed soon after demanding they explain what they possibly meant. Not fun

  49. John M. Berger says:

    “John, why did you post that song?”
    Well I was sort of thinking about which country in the EU most contrasts with Greece insofar as productivity and living within its means is concerned. There was an article in National Geographic awhile back comparing the two. Some thought that if Greece got bailed out the balance of help would come from Germany. I hope it didn’t offend anyone.

  50. Mal says:

    Well, it now appears Russia is romancing Greece along with China and a couple other troubled countries in financial trouble. That’s all we need! Can you say BLACKMAIL to the European bloc that needs to extend the bailout?

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