I’ve seen a lot of leftwing comments in my life…so have you, I’m sure.
This one bothered me more than usual for obvious reasons. It was addressed to our buddy SilverFiddle at another blog….
“Silver… just finished reading an article on the decades long slide in Army recruitment goals.
It stated the plan was built on the idea that if America was ever attacked, people would quickly sign up to defend her. Now they are not so sure.
For years in Iraq we operated with sub par troops, victims of both physical and mental issues, drug addicts and understaffed battalions.
If not for forcing troops to over stay their deployments, we’d have been in a real fix.
The WW II generation is over, and with it, the drive that inspired many to great things in the name of country.”
Z: “sub par troops”, as if everybody in WWII was some MIGHT GI JOE with no problems, right? And, of course, they froze in WWI and WWII but they got through it. They had little food, they had far less than anybody in Afghanistan and Iraq. They couldn’t email loved ones, etc.etc.
What this commenter neglects to consider is LOVE FOR COUNTRY and how the Left has so badly robbed our kids of that in our schools and then expect them to fight for it. The WWII soldiers loved this country; they’d been raised in school to love it, as does every student around the world except in America.
We have MANY American kids joining up and many doing astonishingly heroic acts in Iraq and Afghanistan. ….And, of course, nobody can deny there are those who won’t fight, which was also the case in the last two World Wars.
-Do you feel they’re not willing to fight anymore? I think every generation’s had plenty of those who won’t fight… think it’s much worse today?
-Do you feel they have any reason to fight for a country their liberal teachers disdain? When kids don’t even learn the Pledge of Allegiance and a happy respect for faith (“Christmas vacation”,etc.) is stripped of them in order to placate foreigners, why fight for US?
Tell me what you think of that comment…thanks.
Until we get to this again……..we’re not going to have kids who care:
The WW II generation may well be over, but they weren’t the generation that rose up in patriotism to defend the country after 9-11. Of course, we had a president who loved this country. Still, they were sent to the wrong place for the wrong reason and were made to stay too long. Defending the country is one thing, and attempts at nation building is quite another. As for today, I believe there are a good many willing to rise up and fight for this country again. Not to sustain the rot in many ways it has become, but rather to fight to regain what is was.
So glad that you’ve brought this front-and-center, Z.
We’re overwhelmed here in the AOW household — more so than usual. Explanation here.
Most of us have heard that old alleged quote from Socrates in Plato’s Rebublic “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders…. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers.”
Prob’ly not entirely valid, but a characteristic lament that each senior generation sooner or later voices in one way or another about its successor.
I can recall when I joined the Navy back in 1960 . . . the WWII and Korean War old salts (some really tough guys whom I still admire with great wonder today) liked to groan that “I don’t know what this Navy’s turnin into. It sure ain’t the one I remember from the good old days.”
Then I retired in 1984 after 24 years and found myself looking at the people who were replacing me and my generation, I heard my voice saying, “These guys today really got it easy. This is NOT the same Navy I served in.”
My youngest son did 24 years also, and when he retired a few years ago he said, “Dad, it’s all fallin apart. Today’s Navy isn’t anything like the one I joined.”
So . . . I’m not up to speed on the commenter’s bona fides, but that sort of disparagement is apparently locked into the human DNA somehow and pops up from time to time when people look back on the past after it’s been revised and edited by years of shifting political plate tectonics.
I do know, however, that the US has never been as invincible as many people like to think it was in the past. We got VERY lucky in WWII in many ways. If not for the bottomless pit of Russian manpower and Hitler’s ill-advised decisions over ending the “Battle of Britain” and then attacking Russia right before the worst winter EVER, the Third Reich may well have survived until today.
And if not for some perfectly timed luck with our carriers being gone at Pearl Harbor and then the spectacular win at the Battle of Midway, not to mention the magnificent bluff by some unusually resolute commanders in the Battle of Leyte Gulf, we may have had to settle for peace in the Pacific and left the Japanese Empire intact in east Asia.
My considered opinion, as a student of history, is that there have always been naysayers and dilettantes and peaceniks for whom combat is something other, brutish, people do, but when some tyrant or sociopath comes along and bloodies our collective nose, we immediately put down our Ray-Bans and our pina colladas and start taking names and kicking ass.
The US military has always had its slackers and goldbricks, its Sgt Bilkos and Bowe Bergdahls. But when the ship hits the sand, today’s US Marine, Grunt, Zoomie, Squid, and Coastie are NOT something you want to see coming toward you if you’re the guy who rained on their B-B-Q and said something uncomplimentary about their mothers.
For the most part, the “greatest generation” were drafted into World War II service; today’s military are entirely volunteers. The “greatest generation” gave us nitwits like the commenter you cite; people who came to adulthood hating America, its values, our traditions. The commenter is diminished in every way by the young men and women who are our front line defense. There are some exceptions, but generally speaking sub-par troops do not go into combat; they are discharged as unsuitable for further military service. The one exception that comes to mind is Bergdahl, who no doubt is the commenter’s ideal soldier. What the commenter said is utter hogwash, but we’ve come to expect that from the American hating left, haven’t we?
Z: Your responses to that commenter were excellent. I post them here for all to read:
Z: So, liberals are surprised that American young people may not might fight for their country when they’re never given a chance in schools to learn to love it? Amazing. Do you even realize the difference in education of the crap our kids are getting now and that the WWII heroes got, learning all the good about the USA, not just the bad?
Sad to hear how much disdain you’ve got for it.
Z’s comment on education today:
As a teacher, I believe in age appropriate education and our kids are learning mostly about things like slavery and anti-capitalism, etc etc., before they’re old enough to have developed fondness for the greatest country on the planet. That’s a problem.
Nothing’s wrong with teaching differences between wars, or whatever else you brought up….it’s context, it’s age, it’s stopping the constant disdain for who we felt were heroes when we were growing up.
Everyone here should see contemporary history books! One fairly reasonable portrayal of our country talks about the depression and then the WPA, CCC, etc., and, in the middle of a discussion on those, says something like “the WPA, which had segregated tents for the workers…” out of the CLEAR blue sky…race isn’t even remotely part of that chapter, but they get it in there. Very subtle, very stupid.
That’s all I’m saying.
Young kids need to learn the goodness of this country, the brilliance of our founders, without learning they were really crap because they had a slave, for example.
I hope that makes some sense to you. I wish it did to the 90% of our teachers, who are liberals. Teach our kids to love this country, when they’re old enough, discuss the negatives…
they’ll fight again.
We are a very different nation than we were in WW II. Half of the 18-34 cohort of young men and women don’t qualify for military service for one reason or another. The are the products of a rotten culture, poor parenting, ritalin, drug acceptance, sitting on your ass playing Xbox, fast food and obesity, fear of guns…
We are not as mentally or physically fit as we were in WW II, but the people who signed up after 911 have done great things, and we should be thankful we have them. Too bad our Republicrat Government was too stupid to use them effectively, and that includes Bush-Cheney.
+ 10 for Z ….
Silverfiddle, it didn’t occur to me to publish my responses…..I’m glad you did because I DO believe I’m correct on this. I really do. How do we expect ALLEGIANCE when we don’t teach PRIDE and THE GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF AMERICA? THANK YOU.
Yes, we are a VERY different nation, as you say….ritalin, drugs, video games, obesity, fear of guns…that’s another great point, SF! FEAR OF GUNS…when our children played with guns and, in that way, also learned the “Good guys from the Bad guys”
HOW DO WE FIGHT A WAR WHEN OUR LEFT DOESN’T ALLOW ‘BAD GUY’S’ IN OUR CHILDRENS’ PLAY BECAUSE THAT’S ALL RELATIVE AND, GEE, YOU OUGHT NOT SHOOT THEM, EVEN WITH YOUR FIVE YR.OLD FINGERS, ANYWAY!? how??
We had HEROES….Hi Ho SILVER AWAY! We had shooting, we had posses, our childhoods included healthy play….we could actuallY KEEP SCORE at school in games….not EVERY KID GOT AN AWARD, only the WINNERS got them.
We are NOT RAISING WINNERS…..How do we expect anything from them?
Mustang; You are right….THEY HATE AMERICA. Where we do go from THERE? And it’s not getting better!
bocopro…that’s a Socrates quote? I hadn’t heard it. It’s so true…even back then.
Kids slouch so terribly in their chairs, have ZERO respect for adults (although you should see them at my school where I sub…many will jump up to help Mrs. Z if I’m carrying something…etcetc…our kids ROCK)………and YES, that kind of disparagement IS locked into the DNA. WHY? Years of liberal teachers, permissive parents? WHY?
We were told to sit up straight, respect our elders, …
I think I told a story here about early this summer…I was in the pool with a neighbor, an unmarried working woman who has a four year old son; We were talking with another young mom whose kids call their elders Mrs Z, Mrs. Jones, etc….this unmarried mom told me her son needs not call his teacher Mrs. Smith unless she earns HIS respect. think about that….he’s FOUR. I was stunned and uncharacteristically kept my mouth shut!
AOW…it’s kind of haunted me, this comment to SF.
I can’t believe that saga with the chair and am glad it worked out, but WHAT a lot of stress caused to you both. I’m so sorry.
Jerry….I am a rare one who doesn’t see such ‘nation building’ the Right gets accused of….we barely made it out by the skin of our teeth, so there wasn’t much time to nation build…but at least we got people voting in their own countries; not a bad thing.
One thing I DO wish we’d done is actually taken the oil the Left accused us of wanting…we deserved it.
And I hope you’re right about our kids today; I know several myself who’d go fight tomorrow if necessary, or at least say they would.
Good questions, and great comments. I like Bocopro’s comment. Thanks to him and his family for their patriotism and service. All of my brothers served in the military, one of whom served in the Navy for 35 years. I will ask him about comparing the current day navy to his navy.
Secondly, having actually been to a local tech college recently, I can say that the nation is still a place where young people are working hard in school to make a better future. They are smart and energetic. The kids I met in tech college are not your standard, kiss-my-butt and give-me-a-safe-place spoiled brat. They want to program computers, work in doctor’s offices, fix automobiles, and any number of things you find in the regular tech college. They want jobs.
I think we are in good shape with the current crop of work-a-day kids. It is the privileged, spoiled brat that we see demonstrating AGAINST THE FIRST AMENDMENT on TV where we have real problems. Our problems come from liberals, i.e. the Democrat Party.
Z, Yes, great replies.
Well, I know a few people in the service and they are very dedicated. I don’t have any direct experience in the service (4F) so I’ll let the other guys do that. Based on web search it looks like total number of individuals in front line service has been around 1,400,000, with around 4 million coming of military age annually. I think there are enough good families/parents who will raise children willing/wanting to volunteer for service. I’d be more concerned about the government “leadership” in the short and intermediate term.
Like most of you, I believe the morale we have in our society today is all due to who we have in the WH. Case in point……..look how we rallied around our country after 9/11. That was the same spirit we experience after Pearl Harbor. The difference? No war was declare after 9/11. If it had, I believe we’d have had the same patriotic response at the enlistment centers. 9/11 was our Pearl Harbor. Both were sneak attacks; both resulted in approx. the same number of casualties, etc. I was in Jr. High when WW ll started and remember it well. All isn’t lost……..yet………but most certainly would be if Hillary gets in next year. This will be the most important election probably in our history.
“Do you feel they have any reason to fight for a country their liberal teachers disdain?”
From what I know of those “teachers”, I’m completely amazed that [any] of our youth have the fortitude to enter the Armed Services.
Bob, super input and I thank you for the encouraging words about students at that tech school…fabulous to hear.
Obviously, I don’t think ALL kids are entitled, but so many more than before. Good to hear these people want jobs and are willing to train for them. Thanks.
Mal and you both are a little older than some of us here and it’s interesting to hear you both say IT’S THE LIBERALS…WE all think that, and it’s interesting that people who’ve lived in this great country for many years see what’s causing the problems.
thanks to you both.
Mal…yes, this is THE most important election….four more years of this is the end.
I’m getting very curious about what will happen to Obama care when January’s raises in premiums come out…what a HUGE surprise to those who didn’t understand how it worked. Who didn’t see this coming?>
Kid, yes, it’s very concerning….do we want young Americans treated as they’ve been in our military; with inadequate equipment? NO.
JMB…it surprises me, too.
The other day, a friend’s grandson told her “Grandma, it’s not that the Naval Academy is going to be free, though that’s good for my mother as it’ll be tough for us to afford college for me and my sister… but…the reason I want to get in is that I want to service my country.”
I almost wept. I’ve known this kid since he was born and he’s now 18….after a rancorous divorce, the father deserted them, NEVER sees them, barely calls…no presents on birthdays, …and he pays $300 a month for them BOTH all these years tho the mother’s taken him to court. He tells all his bigwig friends he pays $3000 a month and that she won’t let him see them. Imagine? And this kid STILL has the dignity and MANLINESS to want to fight for this country.
AND, the great news is both his senators, who he met with 3 weeks ago, sent glowing letters to the Academy….pray for Nick! 🙂
Good for him, Z. It just proves my point about our society still having some great kids. We wish him well. See? There is still hope for the future. Optimism beats pessimism any day!
There are more “good people” out there than we generally think. This is because the media focuses on the fringe because that is what sells. Job number one is construct a headline that gets peiople to click on it and therefore generates ad revenue. This is 98% of the media’s focus. Maybe 100%.
And it’s an interesting subject because I think more people would actually click on good happy ending stories than the ones about the human garbage. Ah well.
I think the demise of our national spirit, particularly regarding contributing to the war effort, was harmed by the conflict in Vietnam, and the nations response to those vets.
And the media portrayals of national military service since then, with a few recent exceptions, made many youth ambivalent to service.
Kid, I don’t think so; very few comments even HERE when I don’t have a ‘hate every muslim all the time’ post….I hate to say that, but it’s true. People are ANGRY and happy ending stories don’t do it.
Tomorrow, I know I’ll get maybe four comments ….it’s peaceful and a beautiful post….
Ed…I think Vietnam had an ENORMOUS lot to do with the horrible spirit of our country since then….the left started slamming anything military, hating our soldiers, they got us out of there when I can’t TELL you how many vets say “we could have won”…
Even in Iraq and Afgh. I hear so many soldiers saying they could have won…they were making headway.
I don’t know who to believe anymore. But I DO believe Vietnam was a terrible turning point for our country. Terrible precedent…
I must say. Contrary to popular opinion, and hopefully the Colonel will back me up on this, we won in Vietnam.
We forced North Vietnam to terms, and they abided by the terms until the Democrats in Congress passed a bill forbidding any more expense in Vietnam.
The North then invaded the South.
We didn’t lose, we surrendered.
Exactly Ed. We did win and not because of the politicians but in spite of them.
I don’t think anybody looked at Vietnam as WE WON! What would that look like, a win in Vietnam? I’m curious, not challenging either of you…
…but we CERTAINLY surrendered.
Isn’t it said that Walter Cronkite’s sudden and constant negativity shamed our politicians into pulling out?
I never understood Nixon’s “Peace With Honor” proclamation.
No one looked at Vietnam as a win if they weren’t there. The US military was not defeated in any engagement with its clever and ferocious enemy. The victory came from observing the courage and selfless sacrifice of our individual soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines. These individual efforts gave the American fighting man a clear win over the obstacles he/she faced, not only from the enemy but for the traitors back home.
The writer of the comment I posted here wants you all to know that he’d used information from a Just as an aside Z…
The opinion piece to which I referenced in my comment, was written by a Major in the US Army who started as a private and has risen to that rank, which he still holds.
He is also a professor at West Point.
I think the writer of the comment doesn’t understand that there’s nobody here who doesn’t think our servicepeople have been done wrong….All of us understand that young people are not prepared. My point stands that it’s what our kids have been taught that’s holding them back.
If we don’t wake up to what liberal teachers are doing to our kids, then how can liberals bitch about a generation who won’t fight?
I seem to recall that Nidal Hasan was also an army major, so I can’t bring myself to acknowledge this unidentified person as having credible expertise.
Amen to that, Mustang. Exactly
Yes, I also remember ‘Nam veterans saying “just let us fight!” after taking a hill at a high cost of lives, then be told to withdraw again. Sometimes they would take the same hill several times like that. No wonder many came back all screwed up. And then we have Agent Orange.