Sunday Faith Blog

Things are tough in America….I spoke to a group on Thursday and mentioned how most of us do only what a wise friend of mine suggested;

    MANAGE DESOLATION INSTEAD OF HOPING FOR RESTORATION

We can do better.  We can hope that ethics and the character of believing Christians and Jews come back to this country on every level;   We can hope for less greed, we can hope for kindness, we can hope for patriotism, we can hope for truth to be told.   (please, I know not all believing Christians and Jews are not kind, generous, patriotic or truthful, but I’m talking about those with the character these faiths elicit simply through true understanding of the Judeo Christian God)

Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
    nor his ear too dull to hear.
But your iniquities have separated
    you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
    so that he will not hear.   Isaiah 59

We, and our country, have been unfaithful to God, not unlike so much of what’s written in the Old Testament.   The Israelites were profoundly unfaithful to God until times got tough; every time they improved, they forgot him, began worshiping idols, lived unworthy of His attentions, yet He continued to favor them.  Us, too.  But, God did get impatient in the Old Testament.  Is He losing patience with us?

Second Chronicles 7:14 “If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

Are we kooks for thinking this?  Are we silly for wasting time praying for forgiveness, for restoration, for revival?   I don’t think so…….some of you don’t, either.  But we need to pull a whole country with us.  Yet, imagine the kinds of really ungodly behavior Americans are involved with today, and how they mock anyone who dares share Christian faith.  Can restoration happen?

Thoughts?

Second Timothy 2:24-26 “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”

Have a wonderful Sunday!

Z

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25 Responses to Sunday Faith Blog

  1. bocopro says:

    Summa y’all might like this. Very thorough, focused, thoughtful response. Gotta give the kid his props . . . he done good:

  2. Instead of God Bless America, America Bless God.

  3. Silverfiddle says:

    Very thoughtful piece, Z. Well-state, as always. The story of God and his chosen people in the OT is the story of the human heart. God never abandons us. It is we who abandon Him.

    It was a mistake for religious people to identify too closely with the GOP. Anywhere a church got mixed up with government, it ended in either a horrible theocracy or the wholesale falling away of people. Look at Europe.

    The GOP and “Right Wing” Christianity are rotten vessels for Christ’s message. Too many Christians stood by and allowed Republican religious-panderers hijack our symbols and turn God’s word into slick political propaganda. I wonder if this marriage in hell plays any part in the rise of atheism in this country?

    I’ll duck now…

  4. geeez2014 says:

    bocopro…will watch when I have another few minutes….thanks

    Ed, that’s right. good motto! TRUTH

    SF…funny you’d include that part about the GOP because I deleted a chunk of my post when I’d finished it and that had to do with the Christian TV types…not all, but so many are pink-haired, golden throned, knocking people down with healings, screaming, acting like nothing any of us have heard of in the Bible…and my question was “how can non believers see THAT and then be brought to CHristianity when they think that’s a good representation?”
    If THAT isn’t a part of the rise in atheism in this country, I don’t know what would be.

    Similar to the GOP and CHristianity….Christian Conservatives allowed what you describe mostly because the COnservative message includes pro life, traditional marriage, freedom of speech, religion, etc etc………so they flock to the GOP, which has always stood stronger for those things than Democrats.. Also, the liberals are so often keen on their mantra that this is not a Christian country enough to allow Christian symbols in the town square.

    Not sure what you mean by “our symbols?” tell me.
    Young churches are exploding in numbers in my area, so I’m still not sure we’re all 100% correct in suggesting CHristianity’s on the wane,by the way.

  5. Angel says:

    America bless G-d thats perfect Z! stay warm my friend! xoxoxoxo

  6. Mustang says:
    In an 1820 letter to William Jarvis, founding father Thomas Jefferson opined, “I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education.”

    Few could disagree with this wisdom, which suggests that children must be taught the things that will bind our society. In Jefferson’s day, teaching occurred at home with Christian mothers inculcating their children with reading, writing, and arithmetic skills, and also the essential virtues —the things young boys and girls must have in order to reach a successful adulthood.

    After 1870, the educational emphasis moved away from homes and parishes into the public domain, where all of those people convinced of the rightness of Marxism began working their magic upon our children. This was our problem then, and it is our problem today. Today education has become one of this country’s largest (and most corrupt) industries. Education has moved from its status as a solution to that of a serious problem. Now then, in a secular society, without direct involvement of parents in their children’s education, what do you think is a likely consequence? We can see what has happened already in American society.

    While true that an educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people, public education is having the opposite effect. Parents with virtue must convey it to their children; we must have parents illustrating to their children a clear connection between the scriptures and the development of human virtue. Timothy 2:24-26 would appear the perfect method of doing this.

  7. Mal says:

    Our most fervent prayer is that after the coming election, God will once again be “allowed” into mainstream society instead of being banned like He is now under the guise of “separation of church and state”.

  8. C-CS says:

    DITTO to Mustang’s comment!!
    Carol-CS

  9. Sparky says:

    Double Ditto to Mustang’s comment. Our nation is in trouble. I just hope we can influence the unbelievers to follow after God’s teachings so that we may please Him and prosper again. Please, everyone, pray for our Nation and for Israel. May our LORD return soon.

  10. geeez2014 says:

    bocopro; I just watched your Rubio video and if I voted for him only for what he said, I’d feel good about it. He’s always been my favorite; I don’t believe he’s a panderer, like some here think; in fact, I believe Cruz is a far bigger panderer and so smart he’s getting lost in his rhetoric…
    And, I have always held you in pretty high esteem but, as for you being an atheist (which I have to admit makes me feel lonely for you, …just an FYI, nothing needing much of a response)…as far as your being an atheist and posting this and your reaction? My esteem for you just sky rocketed….I’m proud to know you.
    I used to have, and need to figure how the H to do it again, a saying from CS Lewis on my blog sidebar which talked about seeing the world through faith as the sun allows me to see everything around me…bad paraphrase, but….
    thanks. I think so much more of Rubio now.

    Mal, exactly.

    CS and Sparky; Mustang and I are usually on the same page! But he says it a little better than I, most of the time 🙂

  11. Just watched the video.
    I wish we all could express our faith so clearly.
    And similarly as he said, rather than fear a Dominionist Theocratic government, voters should fear a Godless self-guided ruler.

    And I wish we could all express ourselves as clearly as Mustang, also.

  12. geeez2014 says:

    Ed, me, too…….I absolutely loved when he said that rather than fear that, voters should fear someone who’s Godless…and self-guided.
    Mustang’s the man 🙂

    Boco: I figured out how to add that C.S. Lewis text…thanks for the ‘encouragement’!!! (reminder, actually)

  13. bocopro says:

    Who said I’m an atheist? I NEVER said that. What I did say was that I don’t pretend to know all the answers and haven’t found any belief system I can buy into wholesale.

    Some time back another very devout and knowledgeable lady challenged me on the subject and I related a discussion I had with a young woman about 50 years ago. Now, this is quite long, and possibly a bit distasteful to some, but it summarizes my approach to religion:

    The Regg came back from mass this morning and Monsterdawg stared at that big gray spot in the center of her forehead as if he wanted to clean it up for her. Made me ponder the recent trend toward abandoning Christianity in favor of . . . of . . . of what? Self? Wealth? Ignorance? Islam?

    Church attendance is dropping throughout the US, and churches are being dismantled in Europe to make room for mosques. Now I’m not a practicing anything, but without the sanctuary, without the social support, without the cultural continuity and spiritual anchor the church provides, I gotta wonder where this path will take us.

    I’d just rather live in an environment with the same types of people I had around me while I was growing up . . . Christian and Catholic and a few Jewish people with reasonable but genuine beliefs and the morals and ethics and conscience inculcated by the pastors and priests and rabbis.

    So why don’t I go to church? Am I a hypocrite? Doesn’t my belief in those values apply to me? I’ve been thinking about that for 60 years now.

    Long time ago, about 1964, I was babysitting a friend’s girlfriend in the Acey-Deucy Club in Treasure Island. It was a dull Saturday afternoon, and he’d been called by our “B” School class leader CPO for something and asked me to entertain her for a couple hours ‘til he got back. One of my clearest memories for some reason.

    She was a strange, very modern girl, about 5’ 5” and 98 pounds, sort of a nondescript dusty color, Air Force E-5, liberated, mixed undetermined ethnicity, quick, fairly attractive, and a consummate BS artist. She told me a few not-quite-credible episodes from her not-quite-possible history, and I called her on it.

    On about her 4th Cuba Libre, she apparently decided that her standard stuff wasn’t getting her anywhere with me, so she rather jarringly shifted topics from her own unbelievable life to mine and my personal beliefs, since I wasn’t having any of hers.

    “Do you believe in God?” she asked, cocking her head slightly and gazing directly at me in what she later described as her “disarming and piercing” stare.

    “Not in the conventional sense,” I told her.

    “Oh!” she said, leaning forward on her elbows and getting her face as close to mine as possible over the table separating us. “Please elaborate on that.”

    Now I don’t think she was a gold-digger, or she wouldn’t have been hanging around mid-grade Navy enlisted guys. She was more of a weakness miner, snooping around in guys’ heads to find the control panel so she could manipulate them for her little games. I knew that about her, but still found her much more interesting than the baseball game that was on the TV over the bar. Hey, I was young, and my wife was 8,000 miles away.

    “My concept of God is that it’s something completely incomprehensible to the mind of man in our current stage of development. Whoever or whatever God is, or was, doesn’t think in the same manner we do. If he has what we could call a mind, it would be a composite of pure logic, reasoning, physics, math, chemistry, and it would be as unfathomable and ungraspable to us as ours are to a chimp.

    “I don’t think God is some grandfather-looking guy in a white robe with a long silver beard who hangs out on mountaintops or in clouds and is fascinated by the ordinary, routine, daily activities of people. He might be everywhere and know everything, but what some guy in Wichita is thinking at any particular moment is no more important to him than what an ant is thinking when a leaf falls over its mound is to us.

    “The universe with all its mass and forces and and laws is an expression of the super awareness and control over relationships between matter and energy that we’ve barely scratched the surface of. We have a comprehension of his influence, his purpose, his actions to about the same degree that a paramecium has to Einstein’s theory of relativity.”

    “Oh, I LIKE that,” she said. “So you don’t think God is watching every little thing we do or say or think, right?”

    “Yeah, he’s no more interested in our little problems than we are in the problems in a flock of sparrows landing in a wheatstubble field for lunch. There are many ways to see God – you have the omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent god who keeps everything running and listens to prayers and all that . . . you have the all-powerful god who set it all up, kinda like an experiment, and is interested only in letting it run its course and see how it comes out . . . you have the absent god who put it all in motion, then went on to other things . . . you have gods which are greater than human, but not omnipotent . . . and you have gods who consider the world and all of us as playthings or worker bees. Absent gods, disinterested gods, UNinterested gods, limited-power gods . . . all kinds of gods all more or less cast in images that are comfortable to people’s minds, but they’re all basically like humans in appearance so that we can relate to them.”

    “Which one of those do you think is right?”

    “I don’t buy any of them wholesale. I won’t presume to understand or describe a power so far beyond my ability to recognize and interpret that I’d be like a kindergartner trying to explain Schopenhauer or Kant, or a village idiot trying to describe how an egg and a sperm can form either a Raquel Welch one time or a Curly Howard the next.”

    She signaled the waitress to bring us fresh drinks, then said, “Do you go to church?”

    “No. Haven’t found one that I could go to and not feel uncomfortable in because I’d be there under false pretenses.”

    “False pretenses?”

    “Yeah, you know . . . hypocrisy. Going through the motions but not completely believing or accepting the whole nine yards of it.”

    “Yeah, I know what you mean. I’m a sort of Episcopalian. My parents were Catholic and wanted me to be, but it was just too restricting for me. I don’t think religion should make you feel guilty and all that all the time. Did you go to church as a kid?”

    “My grandmother took me to a Baptist church every Sunday. Even had me baptized one time. Full immersion. Scared the shit outta me. But that doesn’t mean I consider all rituals and rites worthless or meaningless. I mean, there’s a big difference between God and religion.”

    Again with the head cocked to one side: “How can you have a religion without a god?”

    “Well, if the god doesn’t have to be personlike, some kind of living being we can identify with, then you can have a religion based on anything . . . science, math, beauty, nature . . . but you can have a god without attaching a religion to him.”

    I realized while I was talking to her that I did in fact believe in SOMEthing greater than human intelligence, but I didn’t have the smarts to define it or explain it because I couldn’t even begin to understand it myself. The best way to fully understand your topic is to try to explain it clearly to someone else, and I was having a lot of trouble explaining it to her. I was still young, and superintelligent, and immortal, and clever back then . . . BUT, I was beginning to recognize that I didn’t know everything about everything as I had back when I was a teenager.

    Enough evidence exists for me to believe that some people can be clairvoyant, but I can’t explain that either. In fact, I can’t really deal with numbers larger than about a thousand or so. Show me a pile of sand and ask me to estimate the number of grains, or a star in the night sky and ask me how far it is in miles, or explain the sudden effect that being around certain people can have on me emotionally while others might prompt an entirely different response. Can’t do it, not clearly anyway.

    For all I know, Eric von Dainiken might be right-on correct in his notion that what our ancestors saw as gods were in fact traveling aliens, and what they reported as miracles or magic were simply advanced technology that they couldn’t understand, much less explain with their primitive vocabularies.

    I understand evolution and sudden changes in species due to pressures from environment as well as simple genetic accidents. That doesn’t mean I think that’s the only possible explanation for everything we see around us in the flora and fauna. On the other hand, there’s no way this was all put into place just a few thousand years ago by a benevolent superbeing who was vengeful and jealous but got over it one day and became forgiving and understanding.

    Just doesn’t make sense to me that a god would leave cryptic clues as to what it’s all about and then just sit back and laugh at mankind’s petty bickering over who got it right and which sect is crazy and all that. Same for the ancient alien theory. If they’re so far advanced that they could learn our languages and supervise us in moving huge blocks of stone around to build pyramids and temples, why would they leave “clues” about themselves that we can’t figure out? Wouldn’t they just lay it out in plain language stamped on indestructible steel or something?

    Nobody knows how those stones got into place at Stonehenge, or how the blocks were cut, shaped, moved, and stacked to build the Great Pyramid. That thing has roughly 2.4 million blocks, each weighing anywhere from 3 to 15 tons, and the whole thing was originally covered with polished marble slabs. And it was built by bronze-age farmers 5000 years ago, and in 20 years? Damn, that’s over a hundred thousand blocks per year they had to put into place AFTER shaping and delivering them. Well over 800 a month. Almost 30 a day, or one every 30 minutes, assuming they couldn’t work in the dark.

    And they did NOT do it all by hand, ‘cause you just can’t get enough humans AROUND a 15-ton block of solid stone to lift it up and set it atop a pile that gets taller every day. They’d be stepping all over each other. It’d take an army, and who would feed that many people? Where would they live when they weren’t cutting, hauling, shaping, and placing blocks?

    I’m convinced that humans had access to some kind of technology or knew how to tap some kind of natural power, like the little guy who built the Coral Castle in Florida, that made those blocks basically weightless . . . and over time we’ve lost that knowledge.

    And some of the discoveries made in the past 50 years or so by geologists and archeologists and paleontologists boggle the mind, especially Puma Punku, Sacsayhuaman, Gobekli Tepi, and a whole buncha other megalithic sites. Some say that Gobekli Tepi was created and BURIED more than 12,000 years ago, at a time when most textbooks say that mankind was still in the hunter-gatherer stage.

    Further, evidence has been found to indicate an ancient nuclear incident at a site on the west coast of India, a 10,000-year-old city named Harappa. And Mohenjo Daro had canals, indoor plumbing (running water), sewers, and highly polished metals and precious stones to rival modern equivalents. Even stranger is that Mohenjo Daro is thought to be at least 5000 years old, or older, and each successive layer above it shows signs of cultural deterioration, with less evidence of running water, poorer quality pottery, and smaller constructions the closer you get to the top layer. A sort of civilization evolution in reverse. Translations of the Mahabharata are fascinating reading . . . IF you have the time. That’s one LONG book.

    Another possibility, a little like the Atlantis theory, is that human civilizations have gone through various cycles for the past hundred thousand years or so, reaching pinnacles of achievement in control of energies and technologies we don’t even understand today, then collapsing for some reason such as drought or warfare or disease or cosmic interference in the form of comets or asteroids.

    My only explanation for the ability to move huge stones, such as the one in the base of Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem, is lost knowledge. That thing is like 15 yards long, 6 yards wide, and weighs around 600 tons. The Bible (1 Kings 13-17) says that Solomon picked 30,000 craftsmen and 70,000 laborers and 80,000 stonemasons to do the work, plus a few thousand supervisors. Well, if you have that many “men,” I’m sure they brought some women and children with them. And if you have roughly 200,000 people working, you have to feed and house them along with their families.

    Well, where the hell do you put that many warm bodies? My best answer is that I don’t know, and I really don’t think anybody else does either. I’m not even sure the Hebrew tribes HAD that many available adult people in those days. But I’m not going to completely ignore the possibility that the guys who built Stonehenge or Khufu’s pyramid or Tihuanacu or Maccu Picchu had access to some energy source that is gone or we’ve lost or forgotten. I won’t even get into the technology they obviously had to have in sculpting and carving and painting and decorating subterranean chambers without leaving soot or other evidence of torches on the walls and ceilings.

    What was the energy harnessed to move those multi-ton stones, often for miles, often without knowledge of the wheel, and then lifting them vertically well over the heads of average-sized guys? Beats me, but I’m guessing it wasn’t aliens, probably more like some tapping into either sonic or magnetic or some other kinds of force in ways we just don’t understand today.

    In the past thousand years or so, humankind has come up with some spectacular inventions in many different fields, including chemistry, medicine, printing, electricity, rocketry, and so on. My best guess is that previous civilizations had similar successes in other directions, such as physics and earth science before some cataclysm wiped out their accomplishments and any documents or records they may have created.

    Not buying into the ancient aliens theory, though, or divine interference. Time travel . . . well, that’s another story. What very well might be happening is that travelers from the future somehow wound up in the past and showed stone-agers how to use levers, or how to build cranes, or how to navigate by the stars, or whatever. Then they died off, or they integrated into the society and just contributed to the general confusion, or they got back in their machines and took off.

    Lots of evidence in old scripts and paintings and sculptures supports that idea. I mean, a lot of the Incan relics look like spacecraft, or men in spacesuits, and some of the Australian abo stuff looks suspiciously like 20th century astronauts in garb. Some of that stuff even looks like the “grays,” those smallish humanoids with the giant wraparound black eyes so popular amongst UFOlogists. Mankind 10,000 years from now?

    Maybe Von Dainiken is right, but that other guy, Tsoukalos (the one with the hair by 440VAC), is either a genuine seer or a certifiable wacko.

    Bottom line is that it’s entertaining, but so are the Three Stooges sometimes. I can see how people can get hung up on mysteries such as Stonehenge or Oak Island or Puma Punku or myths such as Nessie or the chupacabra or 72 virgins as reward in Paradise for blowing up buses and schools.

    Anybody got any good discussions on these enigmas, these impossible things that nevertheless are still there teasing us, like those 14 human footprints next to 130 dinosaur tracks along the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas?

    Inquiring minds want to know. In the meantime, I’m happy that Reggie is happy with her homilies and rituals and tithes and dogma, even though she hasn’t read the book, which I know more about than she does.

    Who’s right? Donno. I can tell you who’s wrong, though: radical Muslims. And if Christianity goes the way of the thunder lizards, I think much of the world will be much the worse for it.

  14. Baysider says:

    Z, I was struck by your remarks about ‘managing desolation.’ It sure feels that way. I would add what our teaching director said: spend more time looking up, not at each other. They go together, and that puts us more in a position for restoration, no? (And it sure speaks to modern worship which has become more horizontal than vertical.)

    The Chronicles passage is a nice principle for us. (We know God is the source of blessings, and un-blessings follow unrighteousness.) I read it as a specific promise to a specific people, Israel – what God told Solomon after the dedication of the temple. God was so clear about the connect of physical blessing and righteousness of Israel from the get-go. Joshua made that clear in his “choose you this day” speech in Joshua 24. The church could tread lighter here in physicalizing promises of spiritual blessings. I DO pray that we will be enlivened as men of God, for the enemy to be restrained and sinners to repent.

  15. Baysider says:

    Mustang said it eloquently: when virtue went out of public education, we got in trouble. (And mass public education came about, btw, with mass immigration to ‘Americanize’ the thinking of the next generation after them.) Public ed’s been in trouble for a LONG time. In the 1920’s my mother had to recite in class “every day and in every way we are getting better and better.” Even THEN they were claiming man’s virtue above God’s. (And after WW1 – what were they thinking??)

    PS to bocopro: We don’t give ‘ancients’ enough credit. We’re a little bit victims of textbooks that plant goofy pictures of half-animal creatures in our minds, then we wonder how THAT could accomplish some of these things that amaze us today. They could electroplate objects in ancient China, e.g. Roman Britain had a higher percentage of houses with central heating until after world war 2. Wally Wallington has a reasonable theory about Stonehenge here. He demonstrates it here. I was fascinated to read how many new ways of doing things to transport and construct Brunelleschi developed to get the famous Duomo built. Much invention is pushed by necessity. As for human prints and dinosaur tracks – I’d take it as we see it: a man and a dinosaur were walking on the same path.

  16. geeez2014 says:

    bocopro, I’ve understood you to at least be agnostic for so long, if not atheist, that I’m a little surprised, but okay!
    Yes, your comment’s a little too long, and there are so many things I could address, but it’s a busy Sunday for me. I will say it’s interesting you’d mention sparrows because God does pretty much suggest that if sparrows have what they need, how can he deny that to human? He’s not only in the big stuff, he’s in tiny miracles, tiny provisions, many of which I’ve seen myself. Many.
    I don’t believe one must be a Bible reader to be a person of faith, I don’t believe tithing and homilies and dogma and rituals are a waste of Reggie’s time or thinking, either….they’re all so important to faith. As is a church, to those of us who have good enough ones to want to go and have fellowship and worship God…sadly, there aren’t too many of those, from what I’m getting from Christians at my blog’s comments.

    I’m a person of doubt from time to time, so it finally happened to me, and it was TO ME, or FOR ME, that I let all the questions go and focus on the words in red and the enormous changes in the lives of people I see; drug addicts, the poor, the sick, those of bad character and bad choices, once they choose Christ.
    Today, 3 messianic Jews were at our church and happened to sit next to me…..one of them, Rivka, told me that she’d been a Jesus believer for about 25 years, that someone asked if she could pray with her and Rivka said “what the heck…okay?” When they started to pray and Rivka prayed for faith, she got the hot feeling from the top of her head down, something I’ve heard of many times but not experienced, and such joy she said she couldn’t wipe the smile from her face for a very long time. She’s been a believer since.
    No accident.

    So…….it helped me to ‘let it go’ and let God worry about footprints and SO many more questions…it took a BIG change in my wanting to control it all and have ALL the answers before I truly believed. I think C.S. Lewis is right;
    “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

  17. Baysider says:

    And wonderful video on Rubio. I’ve internalized the answers and need to memorize the words!

  18. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider, great idea on memorizing the words….excellent idea.

  19. Baysider says:

    @Z – “BIG change in my wanting to control it all and have ALL the answers before I truly believed.” YES!! I had the same path. If this weren’t true, then faith would become a work of ours.

  20. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider, there are folks who knew the minute they were ‘born again”…I don’t, but that moment I describe was IT for me, you know? Just LETTING IT BE…….He’s got the answers; I don’t need ’em, right?
    If we knew He was there with proof and no ambiguities, we wouldn’t need any faith….and FAITH is what He wants…yes? I often think that it’s odd the Gospel accounts are all slightly different….I like that because some say “Constantine wrote the Bible,” etc………who’d fake it and get facts slightly OFF!? Who’d not make EVERYTHING exactly the same so nobody could say “Hey, Mark says this but Luke says that..must be wrong!
    That kind of apologetic goes a long way for my faith, too.

  21. Baysider says:

    Right. Witnesses who truthfully tell what they see never tell exactly the same story. They do when they make it up. I suspect normal people telling events about themselves would soften parts that put them in a bad light. But these men aren’t telling events about themselves, are they?

  22. Silverfiddle says:

    Bocopro: I love your comment. It was all interesting, but this is the shining jewel:

    “She was more of a weakness miner, snooping around in guys’ heads to find the control panel so she could manipulate them for her little games”

    Yes. I’ve had many brushes with that type, but I’ve never been able to describer one so succinctly.

  23. Bay and Z: Excellent series of comments.
    As for the Lewis quote. When I was an unbeliever, I did not hedge my bets and ridiculed those who did. I blasphemed and people cringed waiting for lightning to strike me, fearful of being collateral damage.
    I asked if they believed, and they said no, and I told them to act on their convictions.
    Jesus was a nutcase or the Son of God, and I didn’t believe the latter and if they thought He might be, they better get straight on the matter.
    Then I got saved. Then I was the nutcase.
    I know enough that Jesus is the Son of God.
    The other stuff will either resolve itself, or it’s on a “need to know” basis and I may have the clearance, but I don’t need to know.

  24. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider…exactly. These men were telling what they’d heard…

    SF…good point about that sentence in bocopro’s novelette 🙂

    Ed “I don’t need to know”…that comes with so much experience and faith maturity. And, it’s silly, because one would THINK that’s a childish way to look at it…but it is SO NOT !!!

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