How many YEARS for WHAT?

THIS STORY stopped me in my tracks.  I don’t usually do crime stories but I believe this merits conversation.

How much leniency should be given criminals who are ‘under age’, not matter HOW grievous, how HIDEOUS a crime is?

If someone can kill so blithely, having celebratory sex afterwards, is that person better now after only a few years in prison or do you think that mind can’t be repaired.  If someone can kill at that young age, what tells us he won’t again?

I’d love to know what you think.
Z

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30 Responses to How many YEARS for WHAT?

  1. GOODSTUFF says:

    the boy’s first couple of years in juvenile detention did not go smoothly. He was involved in 64 incidents, 21 of which required him to be moved to a security unit, officials testified. Six were major offenses, including assault and possession of a controlled substance.

  2. This is why we have judges.
    And often why we remove them.
    The justice system is to protect society, not grant revenge to victims, and the family were victims as much as the dead.
    We had a similar situation here in the Detroit area a few years ago.
    A lot of angst at the time, but most have forgotten.
    The young man here went on to college and is a productive member of society, instead of being warehoused at our expense.
    It’s also true that there is no guarantee.

  3. bocopro says:

    Totally impossible to predict which immature mind can be rehabilitated for re-entry into the mainstream. Some will be strong enough to heal from the trauma, the gore, the thrill, the whatever that triggered their juvenile aggression; some won’t.

    We all experience fear, pain, exhilaration, tragedy, hormonal riots, and all manner or trauma, and while most of us get over the loss of a pet or a sibling or a parent or a child or those weird transient thoughts we get when we’re young or under great stress, many don’t.

    Psychology and psychiatry are very subjective and inexact interpretive “sciences.” Anyone who says with certainty that he CAN and WILL “fix” a Jeffery Dahmer or a John Wayne Gacy or a Ted Bundy is not only wrong, but dangerous. Bundy, for example, had EVERYbody fooled.

    So . . . brutal as it may sound, my take on it is go with the odds and lean in favor of the greatest good for the greatest number. The human species is in no danger of extinction from diminishing numbers. A thinning of the herd and straining of the gene pool can be a good thing.

    Put another way, some people need killin. Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet.

    Good thing I’m not the king, right?

  4. Adrienne says:

    What struck me was the age of the perpetrators at the time of the killing and how brutal it was. And having sex? They were 12 and 13 yo. Good heavens. That boy was in constant serious trouble his first three years in prison. So he has two “good” years and now he’s released? Uh – no. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

  5. Sparky says:

    How tragic, all around! Nothing about this report is good. What made such a young person so totally evil? There has to be a back story but my husband said that some people are just evil from the start. That could be true, Anyway, that said, I’m gonna have to go with I think it’s better to ‘put down’ (execute) those that have chosen to be predators. They’re just too unsafe to have back in society. Ever. Plus, executions are a deterrent to those who may be thinking about breaking the law. If they know there’s a consequence at the end, it may help stop them to start with. I pray for him and her, though. They need to get saved first.

  6. Sparky, in Texas (where this occurred), if he had been an adult, he’d be waiting for a seat.
    But do you remember the Karla Faye Tucker execution?
    She had gotten saved in a Texas prison, became a model prisoner.
    The warden and guards pleaded for her commutation to life.

  7. geeez2014 says:

    Ed, I well remember Karla Faye Tucker; I remember standing in my kitchen with tears in my eyes after she was executed.
    THAT is a GREAT QUESTION: Because someone has been rehabilitated (and who knows for sure?) does that mean killing people is excused? Do the families of those people deserve the murderer to live after all?
    I’m not sure where I stand on this one; talk about complicated …. “getting saved in prison” means she shouldn’t pay the debt? I sound like i’m challenging you, and I’m NOT: Just eager to her answers on this so I can further consider this good point you bring up.

    Adrienne..yes, sex at 12 and 13…anybody need to guess WHY that boy killed her parents now?
    This boy was demented…and now he’ll be out…it seems a hideous move to let him out THIS EARLY.

    Sparky, I firmly believe execution is a deterrents…imagine our country without it?

    bocopro…very interesting input….Ted BUndy was a CHARMER from what I heard. How this young kid is much different from him is beyond me, at least on the face of it.

  8. geeez2014 says:

    Goodstuff, thanks for that info…what a mess. “Controlled substance,” gee, our prisons sure do their job, huh? (Sarcasm)

  9. Kid says:

    No leniency for these two in my opinion. I’d have executed him and very long term for her assuming she didn’t pull the trigger. Some are evil right out of the box, I knew a few when I was a kid,.

    Some gangs are recruiting kids to do of some of their evil because of the lack of consequence. I read a story recently than lots of kids in England are carrying guns (guns aren’t legal there, but I’ll skip that commentary) and many believe they are carrying the gun for some adult criminal type.

  10. Kid says:

    btw, I’m not so much a revenge type. Some people are simply defective and have no business in society.

  11. Mal says:

    What it all boils down to is we really have no way of knowing what is truly in their heart. Psychiatrists only give expert opinions, not guarantees, and many times are wrong (fooled) by the patients. Its a tough call, but if you are to protect the innocent, the penalty must fit the crime. I only wish our current administration would have considered this when allowing unvetted Muslims into our society.

  12. Bob says:

    I don’t know whether to come down on leniency or more prison for the killer. As Ed says that’s why we have judges. If we learn that we cannot trust the legal system, then it’s time for some really big changes. Uh, maybe we are nearing that point, now, with our corrupt justice department.

  13. Imp says:

    “the Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty for those under 18 in 2005..”

    So…at 17 years, 11 months and 29 days they’re still “children”? Now, that’s absurd. Most juvenile crime we see these days is between 13 and 17.

  14. Sparky says:

    @Ed ~ I don’t remember, or perhaps didn’t hear about, the Karla Faye Tucker execution. It gladdens my heart that she has the same promise of Glory as I have. So sad that she chose the difficult path to His grace though. Just remember, death is not the end, it’s only the beginning … I look forward to hugging Karla in Heaven.

  15. Sparky, that’s a beautiful sentiment.

  16. Bob, that’s a scary thought, huh?

  17. geeez2014 says:

    Kid, I think those two kids are way beyond repair….they should have been executed, tho it hurts me to say that.
    And that’s AWFUL about England……..but probably true about why those kids are carrying.

    Bob…totally agree with your sentiment.

    Sparky, Ed’s right…that’s a beautiful sentiment…I SO well remember tears RUNNING down my face when I heard Tucker was gone…..but I am not of the mind that turning into a good person should keep you from justice. God is a God of grace….only He knows…and she’s probably with Him now.

  18. Imp says:

    13 More reasons to be furious, outraged and sufficient justification to clear out the DC swamp without hesitation.

    http://tinyurl.com/je8hwtc

  19. Baysider says:

    Salvation before God is a different issue than salvation before man. He can restore the repentant soul to live forever in his presence. When man can do the same with the victims, then they can talk about leniency from the bench for little Hannibal Lecter. A man made in God’s sight was so sacrosanct that even an animal that killed a man was put down. Guess you know where I stand.

    Let me address the article’s comment about acquiring confidence and skills in prison. Look, I’m all for rehabilitation, and am a big supporter of Chuck Colson’s work. But becoming confident and having repentance ARE NOT RELATED. California exported the ‘self-esteem’ movement all over the planet. Guess where so many who hold themselves with high self-esteem reside? Yeah, with little Hannibal Lecter.

  20. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider…not sure I’m getting where you’re coming from on confidence and repentance…did you get that some of us were drawing any connections between the two?
    Karla Faye Tucker, for example, did become a Born Again Christian…and is saved through that salvation.
    I’m just not getting your point and would like to…..

    And yes, Salvation before God is a VERY different issue….Salvation before man is fine, but someone who’s brutally taken a life like the article I linked to, in my humble opinion, could very well be un-savable on man’s level. Not on God’s level, by the way. Not with a repentant heart. Still we have earthy laws and if they don’t get upheld, what kind of society have we?
    Do you agree?
    XX

    Imp: I’m taking down your comment so I can use it for my post tomorrow…it’s fantastic…thanks!!!

  21. Baysider says:

    The psychiatrist said that having skills for a job built his confidence and he can be at peace while focused on his work. So the story emphasizes the improvements he’s made, and confidence is one. This is a twin brother to self-esteem. Neither confidence nor self-esteem is good or bad in and of itself. Prisons are full of men with both – doesn’t mean it’s used well or morally. But the shrink’s point is he’s worthy to be released because of skills and confidence. Heck, did Al Capone lack skills and confidence? Any state of heart, repentance, restitution (as if that could be), anything that would be a minimal requirement for exoneration is not in the picture. No one here made that inference, but the psychiatrist did!

    “Someone who’s brutally taken a life …. could very well be un-savable on man’s level.” Exactly. Until he can restore to life (make restitution) that which he’s taken, he’s not ‘savable’ by men.

  22. Kid says:

    Baysider. Al Capone has nothing on the clintons.

    Well, another thought from an earlier time when I was a gangsta boy. Some here know the details.
    I would have never killed someone for any gain pleasurewise or otherwise. Not for any amount of money or anything else. it’s wrong. People who kill other humans (outside of self defense) at any age are defective humans. Execute them and eliminate their gene. That’s the most important thing. Eliminate their gene. This is a process that has been going on since the beginning of humans on Earth. Early on, it was much easier. No courts. No dysfunctional juries. Just pure justice administered by people who knoew what the * was going on. See Mustang’s Earps series for a good example.

    Good God the people who at face value Worship Evolution do everything in their power to Stifle it at every turn!

    Some people need killin. It was true 5000 years ago and it is true today.

    I’d have been known as the hangin judge. Lienient to a fault in some cases, hard as tungstun in others.

  23. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider, thanks…I’d forgotten that part of the article…or maybe it was just such a stupid presumption it never sank in. I’m glad you brought it up; the very assertion that confidence is that important in a situation like this is something that psychiatrist probably needs a psychiatrist for!

    Kid….”Lienient to a fault…hard as tungstun in others”..that is SO ME, too…and lenient when I’d have least expected to be! WEIRD

  24. Kid says:

    Z, I’m Libre. We make good judges.

  25. Imp says:

    @Z…what did I do now???? ;-(

  26. Kid says:

    Imp, not to speak out of turn, but it looks like you made a fantastic comment worthy of its own post…

  27. Kid says:

    btw IMP, Damn imagine lois lerner lioving in a million $ house… NO consequences for her impeachable actions. No consequence for any of these POS’s impeachable actions. I did enjoy reading that Ben of Isreal said j fing Kerry has the intellect of a 12 year old.

    No one in the obama adminstration has made a single accomplishment in 8 F* years. Not a one.

    Hey, but I’m gonna for for Gary Johnson> (hilly clinton by default) and show those darn repubs what I think of em, NOT. fme.

    I hope I wasn’t being too strong here. I’m sicillian btw. It’s hard to control myself.

  28. geeez2014 says:

    Imp! I thought it was a compliment! Kid’s right…your link is SO good I thought everybody should see it and, by this time of night, most people aren’t coming back! GeeeeZ!!! 🙂

    Kid…SICILIAN??!! (and I guess you’d seen Imp’s link, huh?)

  29. Kid says:

    Z, I see all.

  30. Kid says:

    Actually Z, Imp’s tellin me a lot but he’s not showin me anything these days. 🙂 It’s got me in a vandetta kinda mood. But a non-violent friendly one.

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