Trump and Russia and Obama

Unless Trump has absolute proof, demonstratable proof, paper and videos that can’t be called false or edited, he should NEVER EVER HAVE DONE THIS.  Obama, of course, completely denying the whole thing, some Republicans saying “He must have proof of this.”   I just wish he’d make absolutely sure and present proof as he makes accusations.

I’m guessing you don’t agree.

 

Z

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46 Responses to Trump and Russia and Obama

  1. Kid says:

    Oddly enough I’m on the fence. My gut reaction is yes, he needs to have proof, but then show me what proof the media or the democrats have come up with for anything. One side is don’t stoop to their level, but then sometimes you need an equal pile of stuff to stem the avalanche.

    Check with me next week.

  2. geeez2014 says:

    Kid, ya, it’s a little early to make a definitive take on this whole thing but we have to also remember that Republicans have to provide proof, Democrats only have to SAY SOMETHING. That’s what happens in a biased media; it’s Pravda and all the other liberal/socialist media around the world here now.
    Even FOX this morning is sounding a little more like CNN and MSNBC….if you want a great laugh, turn CNN for 3 minutes…it’s funny most of the time! But not today, when this Trump tweet of accusing Obama happened; that’s just not acceptable without SOMETHING besides “a good lawyer can prove this..” OMG.

  3. Kid says:

    The repubs, or Trump, need a war room like the Dems have. emails putting them all on the same page etc. Your first paragraph makes me fell like “we’ll were simply not going to take that as how things work in America now.” Fight back and keep improving your strategy and message. The dems didn’t have it refined the first year or two. after Gore lost and they decided to declare war.

  4. geeez2014 says:

    By the way; My deepest wish for years has been that Obama’s people would finally be caught for at least SOME of what they’ve done …..I hope SO MUCH that Trump DOES have evidence, doesn’t NEED a “good lawyer”, but comes up with irrefutable evidence.
    I know NOTHING about this stuff, no clue to what it takes to wire tap or anything….I suppose any evidence is gone and then we wonder why Trump even suggests this happened.
    If it DID happen, I HOPE SO HARD OBAMA IS FINALLY CAUGHT…this would be HUGE.

  5. Kid says:

    Took them months to get through that pathetic college like prank called watergate….

  6. bocopro says:

    This mornin after Monsterdawg and I got back from our pre-dawn walk, I heard this drivel on my local news. Thought about a rant on the subject, but found a visual which capsulizes it all neatly:

  7. Kid says:

    Z, i’ll never wath any of them or click on their links, including Fox. I hope they all get slowly and torturously eaten atom by atom by a black hole.

  8. geeez2014 says:

    Kid, I feel it’s so important to know what Americans are hearing, I’ll never stop that. I know you don’t.

    Bocopro; that’s not really funny because it’s SO typical CNN. ABSOLUTELY not far from actual BS they’re spouting.
    I WISH someone here also watched CNN because there was about a 30 minute grilling of Carter Page last night by Anderson Cooper that had me laughing…..Cooper was the lawyer, trying desperately to trap Page into admitting he had spoken illegally to Russians….”Did they pay your way?” “Didn’t they pay you to speak in Russia?” etc…it was almost painful, however, to see Cooper trying SO HARD and acting like a lawyer, admitting “I’ve only got an undergrad degree and you have a doctorate and you don’t see this?” The guy literally said his “meeting” that’s being discussed between him and some Russian was walking by and slowing down to acknowledge him…and keep on walking…”that’s a MEETING?” at which time Cooper went into the types of meetings there are in this world. Honestly, it was painful but hilarious at the same time.
    I WISH one of you saw it so we could talk about it!

  9. geeez2014 says:

    Oh, for goodness sake! Everybody’s saying it would have taken a judge to wiretap, etc., I never even considered it would be done that way, legally, so to speak! I thought Trump meant illegally wiretapped, people from the DNC, Obama’s bidding, etc., not some LEGAL FISA JUDGE APPROVED WIRETAPPING!?!?????????????????

  10. I agree with you Z. Trump controls the investigatory and prosecutorial powers of the the most powerful nation on the planet.

    But Trump….Tweets???

  11. geeez2014 says:

    and now headlines are how Sessions used RNC money illegally.
    AND MELANIA “Broke the fashion rule” and wore the same dress twice in two days!
    AND The whole Trump family is not beyond suspicion of dealings with the Russians!

    IT NEVER QUITS… I truly DO believe ALL AMERICANS but the stupidly hardcore Obama fans (of which there are tons, we have to admit) are starting to see that the constant insults and hypotheses of wrong-doing are getting OUTRAGEOUS.

  12. ……starting to see that the constant insults and hypotheses of wrong-doing are getting OUTRAGEOUS.

    It could also be Machiavellian genius. Flood media with leaks and false stories….delegitimize the press in the eyes of the public….build up a foundation of sympathy and play the victim…..and insulate your Administration from actual investigative journalism when intentional and planned Executive overreach and abuse of Federal power occurs.

    The concept is no more outlandish than anything else we’ve seen from the political theater orchestrated by the parties.

  13. Mal says:

    “If it did happen, I HOPE SO HARD OBAMA IS FINALLY CAUGHT,.,,this would be HUGE.”
    No it wouldn’t. It would probably be treated the same way Hillary was with her pay-to-play
    “foundation”, unsecured emails, etc. . Dems never get punished for anything they’ve done wrong.

  14. Baysider says:

    I’d rather not hear it. You can impugnby linking the idea in other ways. But please, BE SURE. Too big a target. love the cartoon bocopro!

  15. Interesting. IF a FISA warrant were carried out, against Trump….Trump’s tweets expose that there was probable cause for said warrant.

  16. To Mal’s point, A guy called in to our radio show today and said that he thought this was Trump’s plan: Tweet, get criticized and then prove, shaming the media.
    But as I replied, and Mal said, The proof would never get the attention that the tweet did.
    Rep. Tim Walberg, when we asked him what he thought, said what we felt:
    Hope Trump has something to back this up.

  17. geeez2014 says:

    CI…So you think Trump is creating these stories so the media will die on its own sword? That wasn’t what I meant, I meant the Left could be getting so outrageous most Americans are finally noticing. I’m not sure it’s even possible for the WH to do THIS stuff, and, if anything, these stories make them look REALLY BAD.

    FairestWitness and CI, re FW’s article…I just wish the evidence was there from Trump. Clear evidence. BEFORE saying anything.

    Ed, so you’re leaning toward Mal and CI’s point that it’s Machiavellian…I totally concur that the proof wouldn’t the attention the accusations are getting.

    MAYBE THIS IS TRUMP’S PLAN… As I typed my response to Ed, it came to my mind that the media is SO SO SO BAD, SOOO BIASED, that ALL of this could be a HUGE RUSE……BUT, Trump would REALLY have to have TONS AND TONS OF PROOF.
    Oh, happy day, if THAT happened!

  18. Z – I’m just pointing out the possibility. To me, it’s no more far fetched than the alternatives.

  19. geeez2014 says:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/oklahoma-lawmaker-asks-muslims-beat-wife-201328465–politics.html
    Then there’s THIS Republican….this ought to really go over big.

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/incredible-photo-hillary-clinton-shows-225123764.html
    Then there’s this…as if what Pence did had much similarity to Hillary’s private server? But they include the pix of Hillary (Kid, do NOT LOOK!!) texting at her astonishment as she reads USA TODAY’s story on Pence on an airplane. REALLY important to FEATURE HILLARY!

  20. geeez2014 says:

    Just emailed to me from a friend: Breaking News from Newsmax.com

    The Federal Information Surveillance Act has been a hotly debated piece of legislation, but nobody could have conceived that a sitting president or administration would use it to spy on a candidate from the opposing party, former Education Secretary Bill Bennett said Saturday.
    “There is no question under the law that you can do surveillance of private citizens when they are talking to foreign powers,” Bennett told Fox News’ “Fox and Friends” after President Donald Trump, in a series of early Saturday morning tweets, accused former President Barack Obama of wiretapping his phones at Trump Tower in October, just before the election.

    However, said Bennett, who could have conceived that Obama, or his FBI or Justice Department, would have used the act to watch Trump? Bennett does not blame the president for being “hot on this one, as he should be. What will the American people think of this?”
    In February, author James Hirson reported that days before Trump’s inauguration, Obama issued an executive order allowing the National Security Agency to share raw communications with other intelligence agencies including the FBI, the DEA, and the Department of Homeland Security.
    Further, the Justice Department and the FBI under Obama had been seeking FISA warrants against Trump’s campaign insiders and Trump in the last months of the 2016 campaign, mere days before then-president-elect Donald Trump’s inauguration, former President Barack Obama expanded the ability of intelligence agencies to share unfiltered telephone surveillance information.

  21. This issue [whether true or not] was known at in least November of 2016. Why is Trump distracting with it now?

    Full disclosure, the link is right wing and generally biased as such….but the issue was reported months ago.

    https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/

  22. geeez2014 says:

    I wonder how many other presidential campaigns have been hacked by the gov’t on suggestion that there’s malfeasance.
    Since this is certainly of the same subject in the accusations NOW about Russia and Trump and Sessions and Carter Page, etc etc,, I can see Trump bringing it up. Probably thought it was no big deal because they didn’t find anything but now his admin is being besieged with Russian rumors, why not bitch about it now?
    Not sure; My head’s swimming with dates, and people and everything around these days!

    I just wish the new president could get on with country business and Americans weren’t losing total trust in him with the media stories.

  23. geeez2014 says:

    HEADLINE:
    ‘He wanted more than gossip’: NYT reporter on Russian ambassador’s talks with Trump associates”
    Who would you think wanted more than gossip?
    Truth: Baker, who has met Kislyak, said the ambassador was likely trying to establish relationships with potential power players if Trump were to be elected. In other words, Baker said, “he wanted more than gossip.” The Amb. wanted more than gossip, not Trump or anyone working for him.

  24. bocopro says:

    Radix malorum electoralismus est.

    As Will Rogers said, the more you watch and read about politics, the more you realize that each party is worse than the other, and it’s a sad state of affairs when people take the late-nite comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke.

    Churchill referred to Russia as a riddle wrapped in a mystery stuffed inside an enigma. I’d add that it is a nation of irrecoverable paranoids who live life in a minor key and depend on winter to win their wars for them.

    Russia can be trusted about as far as the election results in an African dictatorship. It is by nature a sad, withdrawn, cloistered, secretive elite jealously holding absolute power over a collection of disparate, inimical, unrelated cultures who have about as much in common with each other as Soetoro had with flyover America.

    Patton and LeMay were absolutely right in 1945. I’d say the same thing about MacArthur and China, but he was a megalomaniacal twit.

  25. “Americans weren’t losing total trust in him with the media stories.”
    Polls show Americans are losing trust in the media, not Trump.
    I wasn’t saying I thought Trump was machiavellian, but that a caller to our show did, and that I had said, as Mal, that the truth would not be reported if Trump was right.

  26. Kid says:

    CI “Trump’s tweets expose that there was probable cause for said warrant.” On the basis of Trump not being a democrat.

  27. Kid says:

    Polling of Trump’s speech to Congress showed 76% support. That doesn’t indicate to me that Trump’s polling numbers are decreasing. Honestly. (clinton polling way above Trump for one example of millions) how many times to you have to believe BS before you actually start considering that the BS is BS.

  28. Kid says:

    Z said “I just wish the new president could get on with country business and Americans weren’t losing total trust in him with the media stories.”

    I don’t believe Americans Are losing total trust in him. Not at all. Only the ones paying too much attention to the fake news..

  29. Kid says:

    And why don’t Americans drown the democrats in mail, emails, tweets, phone calls, etc and ask those swine ‘Exactly why are they holding back the positive business of America, and for All Americans’. ???

    It’s because they are a bunch or brain dead morons who should have suffered the consequences of evolution’s design.

    There are plenty or American’s hurting, needing to move forward, needing to get their finances in order, needing to get their healthcare costs in order….. to be supporting a bunch of 3 year old brats yapping about non-existent Russian communication regards American elections and KellyAnne’s practice of going Commando on the oval office couch.

  30. On the basis of Trump not being a democrat.

    No. On the basis of the FISA Judge finding probable cause.

  31. geeez2014 says:

    FISA warrants are apparently almost never turned down, according to Michael Mulkasy, who I have always admired…they always get the judge’s okay because not many ask for things that can’t be well proven; the FISA request in June WAS turned down. Interesting point.

    The more I hear, the more I think this whole thing is rubbish……created by the media, mistakenly played by Trump…..

    I will say one thing: The way Trump said Obama liked him, the way Obama played the very cool cucumber at the inauguration, regardless of what Trump was saying, makes me sure he was thinking “You think you’re a hotshot NOW, boy, but wait till we’re through with you… you’re done, so don’t get too excited”

    @($*#&@#(*$&(@*#&$(*@#&$(*

  32. Kid says:

    An obama friendly FISA judge? I have nbo idea, but see this is what we are dealing with. It’s called the Swamp. Federal emps making way too much money (130% more than privte sector as a rule) very worried about being part of the swamp that is emptied. And I’d say it goes back to GWB, Clinton, HGWB, all the way to Reagan and beyond. I believe we have federal employees who have been living the Way Too Good life on your dime, that the non-politician – DJ Trump, (Who I do believe have more of an idea how deep this corruption runs) are doing anything and everything to protect their elite status. Add all the media buttheads.

    As bocopro says “I wouldn’t trust a single one of them are far as I could throw michael moore whether he’s on a 20 minute hunger strike or not.” Or somthing like that.

  33. FISA warrants are apparently almost never turned down…

    Not from what I know, nor as illustrated in the link I posted. The link which was posted in early November….still begging the question of why Trump is tweeting about it ……now.

  34. geeez2014 says:

    I’m quoting Michael Mulkasey…said it’s very rare they’re turned down without quite good.
    I don’t know why Trump’s tweeting it now, though a report today said he hadn’t known about it, which is hard to believe.

    Amazing that Obama ran such a clean shop, isn’t it? So little stuck to him…must have been because he was so honest and forthcoming 🙂

  35. Kid says:

    Bottom line. The dems hold rebpubs to perfection. The repubs hold dems to nothing. Tea Party!

  36. geeez2014 says:

    Just heard again how unusual it is to get a turn down on a wiretap request

  37. geeez2014 says:

    Oh, and ya, Kid…..I wouldn’t say that repubs hold dems to nothing but nobody HEARS much about those things because of the media.
    I’m not a Limbaugh listener but I’m hearing a lot of interesting things coming from him on this constant attacking of Trump. But we have to remember that the Left did a REAL job on Limbaugh’s reputation and so it’s pretty much only die heard Cons who have the guts to listen to him. SO, most of America doesn’t listen or scoffs.
    That’s the Alinksy thing; I remember SO WELL when FOX was being discussed on CNN and the network news….a new station was opening up that’d be conservative. At that time, they were saying it with such disparagement and I remember thinking “Wow, they’re all slamming this station and they’re not even ON yet!” I had no reason to think that because I knew nothing about FOX except it was going to be “BIASED” 🙂

  38. Bob says:

    There is no doubt that Trump’s campaign HQ was bugged, and his team’s conversations recorded. Indeed, this is a case of legal hacking at its extreme.

    The FISA court denied one warrant the Justice Department pursued, and granted another several months later. We don’t know who petitioned for the warrant, but that should come out in the process. Now we know where the Democrats were getting their information to scream about Russian links, even when there were none. Remember that Obama had the FBI investigate for those links, and they came up dry.

    The FISA warrant leaks are illegal, and the proceeds of the FISA courts are secret and NEVER to be revealed to anybody. It is extraordinary that recordings resulting from a FISA warrant were used by the Democrats in the campaign. Somebody in the Democrat Party should be in jail, especially Barack Obama who knew about the whole thing. As President, he HAD to know what HIS DOJ was doing, and there is no plausible denial of this.

    Now, why did FISA eventually grant a warrant? My speculation is that the Dems knew that Monafort and a couple of other Trump campaigners had some past dealings with Russian banks, or Russian individuals. In today’s world that’s not unusual. In the process Obama went on a fishing expedition against Trump on a personal level. There is nothing about a FISA warrant that indicates that anyone has broken any law. The purpose of FISA warrants is to see what foreign operatives are doing in the USA. This is a perversion of the law, and Obama belongs in jail.

  39. If Obama is culpable in violating the law, then his prosecution could serve as the catalyst we’ve needed for so many generations, to curtail Executive overreach….with extreme prejudice.

    Speculation and partisanship however, are not going to reach the bar for that to occur.

  40. There is nothing about a FISA warrant that indicates that anyone has broken any law.

    Not entirely sure about that Bob.

    Under the Fourth Amendment, a search warrant must be based on probable cause to believe that a crime has been or is being committed. This is not the general rule under FISA: surveillance under FISA is permitted based on a finding of probable cause that the surveillance target is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power, irrespective of whether the target is suspected of engaging in criminal activity. However, if the target is a “U.S. person,” there must be probable cause to believe that the U.S. person’s activities may involve espionage or other similar conduct in violation of the criminal statutes of the United States. https://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/

    If the ‘target’ of the surveillance was a Russian entity, I doubt that there were any laws broken here. If the ‘target’ was Trump, then probable cause would have had to be presented before the FISA judge

  41. geeez2014 says:

    I wish you could all have seen Mark Levin just now on FOX, past chief of staff of an Attorney General, brilliant Conservative mind. He has a lot to say, most of it being that this badly needs investigation because presidents don’t DO this ….
    Maybe you can Google…. amazing.

  42. FB says:

    Gotta watch The Great One. America is under attack by the Communist International
    http://therightscoop.com/the-evidence-is-overwhelming-mark-levin-rips-into-obama-on-wiretapping/

  43. geeez2014 says:

    “he scared Pete Hegseth?” he scares ME every time he gets this heated cuz he’s had heart problems in the past! I can barely listen to Levin on the radio cuz I’m sure he’s going to keel over!

    Ya, so he talks and talks, and the Left denies and denies and they’re winning. So where’s it get us?

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