Believe it or not, I very much liked Trump’s speech last night. It had everything. And he spoke calmly, clearly, didn’t ad lib like he does when he goes off kilter…good speech.
Pakistan was followed by complimenting India (INDIA? WHY?) …excellent strategic mention. Pakistan couldn’t be happy about compliments to India. VERY good strategy.
No time given for pulling out of the war. Of course, only someone who doesn’t understand war would do that.
Trump gave good background for why he’s changed his mind since he did criticize Obama for staying in Afghanistan….he built up gradually, finally saying how sitting behind that desk in the Oval Office gives you a new ‘view’ on things. Only a lefty can argue that, so it’s no argument, and scored points with ME, anyway.
“We are not nation building, we are killing terrorists” No THAT was a refreshing concept; a president with the guts to say the word “Kill” let alone “terrorists”.
I could mention more but I’d love your thoughts.
Gad, even that little pill Lindsay Graham was raving about it. Even CNN couldn’t say much about it (yet). What did you think?
Z
geeez2014
GeeeZ .... 
Being across the pond, I missed the speech. Can anyone give me a youtube link to the speech on 8/21/2017?
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Mustang, pay close attention to his message to Pakistan and how he included India…fairly gratuitously, ostensibly, but VERY powerful and important …
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Not a fan of the message. Sinking more American lives into Afghanistan is a waste. And going on about how we weren’t going to be announcing upcoming military operations is political whitewash……since operations aren’t US led. The host nation announces these dates (Afghanistan & Iraq), and do so for their own reasons.
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Z …thank you very much for the video.
Historically, Afghanistan has been a quagmire. When I say historically, I mean all the way back to Alexander the Great. But if we examine modern conflicts there, along with their results, we will find two glaring war stoppers: incompetence among military leaders charged with prosecuting the war, and lack of resolve among the folks back home (e.g., those who fund the war). The President can, with congressional approval, conduct combat operations. He is foolish for doing so if he does not have the backing of a majority of the American people … for without that support, combat operations are unsustainable.
Whoever takes the lead in Afghanistan must take into account this unalterable fact: Moslems are un-trustworthy. They are liars and back-shooters. They will not hesitate to slit the throat of any American soldier, but will be positively giddy if they can do it to a Christian or Jew. So, this new three or four-star general must know Afghan culture as well as he knows his own; he must be prepared for the inevitable: when high to low ranking foreign officials and military officers place personal gain ahead of allied partnerships and compromise our field operations. And he has to know that bushels of American taxpayer dollars paid in bribes to the highest of officials won’t matter one-whit. It never affected the behavior of Hamid Karzai, and it won’t matter to Ashraf Ghani, either.
If we intend to increase troop levels in Afghanistan, then what has to change is this ridiculous notion that “the Afghan is our friend.” We have no friends in combat. By god, the Afghan should tremble at the thought of pissing-off an American soldier; he should realize that if any Afghan attempts to back-shoot one of our troops, his entire unit will be wiped from the face of the earth … and every one of those idiots will be buried with a bloody pork chop. Plus, there won’t be any more “war crimes” allegations. If the government doesn’t want us to kill the enemy, then don’t send us into combat.
Trump is right to question Pakistan. Again, Moslem = liars and back-shooters. From a diplomatic standpoint, I would not trust a Paki any further than I could toss them. Pakistani behavior comes from their misguided notion that past activities serve the interests of Pakistan. We ought to wonder why they think this. Our epiphany will come from the recognizing American diplomacy vis-à-vis Islamist countries has been grievously counter-productive. WE are at fault for paying them billions of dollars to lie to us about how they are combating terrorism.
A demonstration is in order. No bullying, no empty threats … but simply a clear communication that if Pakistan wants to have a good relationship with the United States, then here are the things they must do, the completion of each task verifiable. If the Pakis do not want to meet these demands, which is their collective right, then may God have mercy on them should any Pakistani commit an atrocity on an American person or property. Essentially, my hope is for “tough love diplomacy” … because I think that this is what is in America’s best interests. But neither should the USA violate Pakistani air space to bomb (with drones or other means) innocent villagers. This sort of thing has been a stupid policy; its result grows more and more terrorists. If anyone is going to bomb a Taliban enclave, it has to be the Pakistani military services. It is one of those things we want the Pakis to do in order to remain on our affable side.
So, I think Trump is correct: there must be no time line, no announcements about troop levels, and whether or not we are happy must depend on verifiable across-the-board results. What I think will be interesting is Trump’s expectation of Indian aid to either Pakistan or Afghanistan. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that planning session.
One final thought: I don’t want our troops finishing a combat tour and having some douchebag medical officer making an entry in his health record that he has a personality disorder, when in fact he’s suffering from combat-related stress. I want to hear Trump’s commitment to the health and welfare of our combat veterans as much as I want to hear how he intends to Make American Great Again. If we do not care for our young men in uniform, American will never ben great again.
Thank you for letting me spout off.
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NORK is now a verb.
Trump NORKed Pakistan last night.
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Mustang, well said as usual.
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CI and Mustang; there probably is nobody on the planet who wants us to LEAVE AFGHANISTAN more than I do. But I’m realistic and know what would happen there if we did. Though the Afghan cops have shown some loyalty to us and have died fighting the enemies there, so to imply that No Afghans can be trusted and that they don’t want a peaceful country without us there and without Taliban or ISIS or whoever has been shown to be probably wrong.
CI…Trump never said how long we’ll be anywhere…but I somehow doubt that he’s going to stand down if a country says “okay, we’re done with you.”…not when that country can rebuild into a richer and fatter terror factory.
We don’t need a whole country of bomb making/violence training, etc etc…..Americans don’t up and leave when we know the worst in a country can plan to hit us even worse if we don’t at least try to prevent that country from being one big happy jihad assembly line.
Trump hinted a few times about how we’re not going to act exactly like we have…and it was clear he meant TOUGHER than we have in the past. “we’re not nation building, we’re killing terrorists’. I had to wonder what nation bldg he thought we’d done already; I don’t consider democratic voting starting in a country necessarily nation building, but…
Mustang, Pakistan…..BRILLIANT to mention how India’s been helping us…I loved how ticked off the Pakis must have been. and I believe Trump did make a commitment to the health of our returning warriors when he mentioned the enormous amount we’re going to be spending on military; I sensed at that moment he didn’t just mean another aircraft carrier $$$
I wonder how many people recognized thru that speech how it was Mubarak who prevented problems there, Khadafy who prevented problems there, S Hussein who prevented problems there…THE TERRIBLE guys (tho I’d not normally equate Mubarak with Khadafy or Saddam) staying in office might have helped us be able to stay OUT of these dangerous places….
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BY THE WAY, I said in my first paragraph the Afghan cops/military have fought terrorists , showing loyalty to US, that’s not 100% true, thank goodness…they’re showing loyalty to the dream of Afghanistan to be rid of the Taliban and for the country not to need us anymore….my feeling is they share our hopes that Afghanistan will be free and somewhat thriving when we hear of so many times their cops/military have been killed in fighting for that…killed by jihadists against muslims, in fact.
Did anybody notice Trump insinuated that the Taliban might be a part of Afghanistan in the future?
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I believe the Left thought the speech was good, too. I have seen almost no criticism….
but I’ve been too busy to watch or read much…Anybody seeing a ton of criticism?
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CLARIFICATION for those of you who took that literally; I never would think the left would think ANYTHING TRUMP SAID WAS “GOOD”…I meant “DIFFICULT TO DEFEND AGAINST”…..
so…
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A major problem with our involvement in Afghanistan [aside from violating the fundamental tenets of COIN], is that it has sucked resources from the fight against AQ and ISIS. The Taliban is not a security threat to the United States….and they never will be…it’s not remotely what they’re striving for. And neither AQ nor ISIS need an ungoverned country to conduct terrorist attacks in the West. The thrust of our involvement over the last few years, has been ‘nation-building’….and it’s not likely to change, because the military and civil functions are necessarily connected. We can’t enable the Afghan military [don’t get me started on their capability and efficiency] without enabling the political apparatus to support it.
Saying that we don’t nation-build, is a political meme that has value only before we go into somewhere like Afghanistan or Iraq. Once we’re there….we’re doing it…and it’s not going to stop until we leave. Grand pronouncements by POTUS aside.
Unless we plan to turn Afghanistan into a U.S. Protectorate…..it’s time to leave.
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Postscript – The thrust of our involvement over the last few years…
And by last few years, I mean since around early 2003……
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Mustang said, “They are liars and back-shooters”. That sums up the world of Islam. Mustang’s analysis and comments are right on mark.
I hope I am not the only person who remembers the G W Bush administration’s analysis that fighting Islamic terrorism would encompass multiple generations. That’s the nature of the animal, and it will never change. We must remember in our softer moments that Muslims are liars and back-shooters because Mohammad admonishes all Muslims to kill Jews and Christians, and anything that will advance Islam is legal including murder, lying, raping, etc. Remember, Islam is a religion and logic or other values do not apply.
Finally, a chief executive with some sense tells us that this fight will go on for generations.
LIke Greg Gutfeld interpreted, we are in Afghanistan to kill the terrorists. We are not there to fix the plumbing, paint the house, make friends, nation build, or proselytize. We are there to kill the terrorists. Period. What does winning look like? We will know it when we see it. Our goal is survival. The threat is potentially existential.
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Bob, if not one muslim can be trusted, by that rationale, “wipe ’em all out and leave” is the only solution.
Of course, we could just leave.
The problem is the disservice to our fallen there, as Trump said..
We should then ask Afghan vets to vote on our policy there.
They paid for it.
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Ed: I wasn’t talking rationale. It is factual that Mohammad tells Muslims to kill Jews and Christians. The Koran preaches peace, and also murder. Contradictions by Mohammad are accepted because Mohammad taught that he cannot be wrong! People don’t follow contradictory advice by using logic. They do so because it is their religion.
The reason that “moderate” Muslims don’t protest the “radical” Muslims is because they know full well what the Koran says, and the so-called moderates believe the same thing! So, from it’s founder, Islam is the religion of peace, and the religion of murder. Slavery, theft, murder, and anything it takes to further Islam is blessed by Mohammad.
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Though the Afghan cops have shown some loyalty to us and have died fighting the enemies there, so to imply that No Afghans can be trusted and that they don’t want a peaceful country without us there and without Taliban or ISIS or whoever has been shown to be probably wrong.
What I wrote is, “Moslems are un-trustworthy. They are liars and back-shooters.” This actually suggests no more than what I said, “Moslems are untrustworthy.” This is only my opinion, of course. The soldier who thinks that Afghan soldiers or police officers are their friend awaits a tragic fate: shot in the back by a supposed ally. I do not suggest that there are no loyal fighters … only that Moslems do not share our values. They will lie for Allah. The Afghan or Iraqi soldier is not one of our brothers simply because he wears a uniform paid for by the American taxpayer. We do not know what is in their mind, but we can learn from past mistakes. Many an American mother or wife buried her son or husband, murdered by an Afghan “inside” incident. Since we cannot believe anything they tell us, they are according to our western values, untrustworthy.
From a 19 March 2017 news article at Lynx, “Three U.S. soldiers were wounded Sunday afternoon in an “inside job,” as an Afghan Army soldier opened fire on them inside of a base in Afghanistan. Coalition security forces on the base killed the soldier to end the attack,” Capt. Bill Salvin, the spokesman for U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, told Fox News. “The U.S. soldiers are receiving medical treatment at this time and we will release more information when available.”
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C.I., those were my first thoughts, too. First the Russians, then “W”, and now Trump? But I was also encouraged by his speech and no blank check or timelines, etc. With “Mad Dog Matis” et al as advisors, I’m sure they’re also aware of the past and are prepared for it. Third time charm? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
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I did not hear the speech and don’t have time at the moment. But I DO like what Mustang said. Especially: “If the government doesn’t want us to kill the enemy, then don’t send us into combat.” I hope somebody read Little America; The War Within the War for Afghanistan first!
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I’m doubtful we can accomplish much there that will be lasting. But if you’re going to be there, the the old phrase “Overwhelming Force” comes to mind.
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The problem is the disservice to our fallen there, as Trump said..
Ed -Or the disservice is to continue sending more young American sons and daughters to prop up a corrupt regime fighting against a nationalist insurgency that is no threat to our national security…..all the while acknowledging [to borrow from the general sentiments here] that no Muslim is to be trusted, anywhere. So why are we in Afghanistan….still?
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I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Mal – We have no choice….there we remain; while the resources could actually be allocated towards fighting terrorism.
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I understand, CI. I’m sure they’re all aware of what you’ve said also, including Trump, who has been opposed to any intervention on our part. Something had to change his mind. We just don’t know what it is.
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CI + 1 too – 8:43
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Now, I know this’ll be unpopular and perhaps a bit jarring, but I don’t mind. Always hated to be in lockstep with other peeps’ thinkin.
I say get out of western Asia altogether. Abandon everything west of Mumbai, south of Rome, north of Capetown, and east of Casablanca. Just get the hell out.
Let Islam fail. It’s inevitable. It is a cultural wasteland with a collection of delusional, paranoid tribes which produce no exports except fossil fuels, mind-altering substances, madness, anger, and terrorism.
Without oil, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq would still be virtually medieval; and without poppies, Afghanistan would be Neolithic. North African Islamic nations cannot survive without tourism, Syria cannot survive without Russian subsidy, and Persia is the perfect example of how NOT to get along with one’s neighbors.
Let them fight it out amongst themselves, Sunni vs Shi’a. Eventually the sheeple will come to understand that Islam has given them nothing in the past 1400 years except internal strife, contempt from other nations, unemployment, fear, deprivation, and war.
They will NEVER embrace us and will instead ALWAYS work to obliterate our civilization . . . until Islam undergoes a long-overdue reformation, or is simply discarded as a flawed and twisted plagiarism of the Judaeo-Christian concept.
Trump was right until he became infected with the D.C. Swamp Bacterium. We need to get out and stop spilling American blood and burning American money in a primitive, barbaric, feudal quagmire where the rabble understand freedom and democracy about as well as we understand burkas and butts in the air.
Get out. And if they shoot at us, shoot back. Sell them inferior weapons with which they can gleefully kill each other but for which we have effective countermeasures. Keep them out of this country. Either outlaw Islam as a false religion or put such restrictions on it that practicing it here is impractical.
Our differences are irreconcilable, and we have no tasking by the Almighty to fix everything in the world. Let China and Russia deal with that cultural cancer. It’s on their doorsteps, not ours. We’ve done enough by rebuilding Europe, Japan, and Korea, and we’ve certainly made China rich enough.
Time to stop playing GloboCop and start paying Border Cops.
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CI: I hope I was clear: “We should then ask Afghan vets to vote on our policy there.
They paid for it.”.
I don’t see a reason to stay except for our investment. If vets want that investment covered, fine.
So many want us out and speak for their fallen brothers that I feel we should honor that, in the absence of a national security threat.
Is it in our interest to stop Iran from overtaking Iraq? Or Pakistan suborning Afghanistan?
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Baysider and Mustang; I don’t think anybody disagrees with this: : “If the government doesn’t want us to kill the enemy, then don’t send us into combat.”
Regarding vets wanting out, I’ve met and heard on TV, also, so many who want us to stay…’we were winning’ (before the Obama backout), etc. So many have said it’s important we stay.
CI, I don’t believe voting is a nation building thing…what else have we done in Afghanistan that’s nation building? Am open to hearing it…
To suggest staying in Afghanistan isn’t related to fighting terrorism is saying you don’t believe leaving Afghanistan would make it one big training ground for terrorism..ready to spread.
The HUGE problem for Europe is the EU: NO PASSPORTS NEEDED….any terrorist can travel, that’s a large part of what’s going on and nobody’s admitting that. THAT would fight terrorism. Leaving Afghanistan behind seems nuts to me..
Bocopro…you think the poppies are going to die if we leave ?
You are 100% right when you say “They will NEVER embrace us and will instead ALWAYS work to obliterate our civilization . . . until Islam undergoes a long-overdue reformation, or is simply discarded as a flawed and twisted plagiarism of the Judaeo-Christian concept.”
I know of Muslims who’d no sooner want a Christian American killed than kill their own child.,…
They need to speak UP and I’ve said this since 2 weeks after 9/11; WHERE are the muslims marching against terror? They’re scared to death, that’s where.
UNTIL WE CAN CONVINCE ISLAM THAT KILLING NON BELIEVERS DOESN’T GET YOU INTO HEAVEN, WE HAVE NO HOPE. Does that mean we walk away from areas through which we will be terrorized? That wouldn’t be my response.
And yet, I WANT US OUT.
Some of your solutions are naive, everybody….sure KEEP THEM OUT. As if that will EVER HAPPEN. Let’s talk REALISTIC. Let’s keep the travel ban PERMANENT….and take out ANY Muslim we even suspect is bad; some of you say “keep them all out”. Good luck with that.
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Good comment Z.
Well, here is today’s recipe for some hors d’oeuvres at your next get together.
Using an offest butter spread – http://www.jesrestaurantequipment.com/assets/images/products/bonc/BONCS4010.jpg
Spread Philidelphia cream cheese over some wax paper at a fiarly thin depth.
Dice your favorite olives and distribute accross top of cream cheese
Spread mixture onto thinly sliced reduced fat salami (so they don’t try to unroll)
Put in fridge for 1 – 10 seconds.
Serve.
Enjoy.
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Kid, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ABSOLUTELY MOST OFF TOPIC COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN ON ANY BLOG 🙂
haaa!! i’M SURE THAT’S VERY GOOD! (what?)
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It is simple and it is very good. I can’t imagine anyone who would say they didn’t like them.
I wonder if anyone did the deep fried zucchinni with cucumber dipping sauce. Damn that’s good.
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Hey, Where’d everybody go? You all down in your Nuklar bunkers? Believe me the crazy fat kid ain’t gonna do squat. In fact, he isn’t even Going to squat. Probably couldn’t get back up again. Don’t have the leg muscle for it. He’s probably 2 and a half mile back in some spider hole cave tunnel munching on 10 year old aged Cheddar that was pillfered out of Belguim in a black ops mission in 2012. I think we should all tweet to him day and night how we think he is a butthead. A cheese eating butthead. Let’s push this stay puffed moron to the edge !
Well Hey, I’m bored.
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Kid, I said I didn’t hate all Muslims…and everybody’s gone 😉
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Z, I would not associate the two abtracts. They’re probably out listening to some old Roger Miller. That’s what I was doing.
Excuse the plug – https://rightwingcat.blogspot.com/2017/08/remembering-roger-miller.html
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Hopefully I am following now!
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YEAH, HILLARY! SO glad you’re reading GeeeZ…comment, comment, comment!!! 🙂 XXX
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uhoh…except Kid’s head is going to explode that someone named HILLARY is commenting here.
Kid…This Hillary is my friend and CONSERVATIVE so ….
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Z – if I had more time and don’t have to type on my phone, I’d go into some detail, but we and NATO nations are provide Advise & Assist at every Ministerial level in the government of Afghanistan, far beyond merely voting assistance, and at a level that very likely exceeds that of our military presence.
The argument of staying in Afghanistan to merely deny geography to train and plan terrorist attacks, is refuted by ISIS ability to do likewise already.
The issue of passports is rather irrelevant as it only applies to citizens of those European nations that adhere to the Shengin (sp?) plan.
Wasting more lives and resources in Afghanistan, when we could apply them towards fighting terrorism……borders on the criminal.
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Z, Heh. I’ll maintain..
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CI….so you don’t feel terrorists would love places to grow their trade, attacking with more sophisticated weapons….once they can take a country like Afghanistan and build because we’re gone?
And the issue of passports throughout Europe is VITAL, by the way. Europeans now are not happy because Poland is going to take in students/workers who come from NON EU countries, allowing them to come in and then have complete freedom to go into Western Europe…Europeans know this is a nightmare and they NEED PASSPORTS.
All EU nations have to take in travelers with no passports.
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Again, I dont really know what passports have to do with Afghanistan. Afghanistan is going to be contested for generations to come. We will not militarily defeat the Taliban unless we engage in total war, at the expense of fighting actual transnational groups. What makes you think that after 15+ years, with Trump at the helm, we now have the answer? It’s a fantasy……and one that has cost countless lives for zero net gain. Can ISIS and AQ plan and execute terror attacks without Afghanistan? Of course, and they do it from generally non-permissive environments in western nations.
There’s what we’d like to have happen……and there’s reality. The two don’t always intersect. BTW, ISIS is in Afghanistan, and they’re fighting the Taliban for control in some provinces. Our presence didn’t stop that.
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