1619 or 1776???? YOU CHOOSE :-)

“Recently (1981), Woodson Center launched an innovative new project, a Campaign “1776” which is an assembly of independent voices who uphold our country’s authentic founding virtues and values and challenge those who assert America is forever defined by its past failures, such as slavery. We seek to offer alternative perspectives that celebrate the progress America has made on delivering its promise of equality and opportunity and highlight the resilience of its people. Our focus is on solving problems.
We do this in the spirit of 1776, the date of America’s true founding.”

In CONTRAST to the New York Times group, “1619” which asserts that…

“In August of 1619, a ship appeared on this horizon, near Point Comfort, a coastal port in the English colony of Virginia. It carried more than 20 enslaved Africans, who were sold to the colonists. No aspect of the country that would be formed here has been untouched by the years of slavery that followed. On the 400th anniversary of this fateful moment, it is finally time to tell our story truthfully.”

This 1619 “...aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative.”

Z: Yes, folks…Bob Woodson, Black scholar and amazing guy, has a group commending America for all its goodness, and the White NY Times has decided that our REAL founding was 1619, when the first slaves arrived, and we’ve pretty much done nothing good since.


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32 Responses to 1619 or 1776???? YOU CHOOSE :-)

  1. bocopro says:

    I’d kinda like for some of the racebaiters to explain why the 1830 US census identifies nearly 4000 free blacks who owned a total of almost 13,000 slaves.


    “According to historian R. Halliburton Jr.: ‘There were approximately 319,599 free blacks in the United States in 1830. Approximately 13.7 per cent of the total black population was free. A significant number of these free blacks were the owners of slaves. The census of 1830 lists 3,775 free Negroes who owned a total of 12,760 slaves.’”

    Halliburton was, if I read the sources correctly, a black professor.

    Another publication, by a black professor named Gates in THE ROOT, has an article discussing “Did Black People Own Slaves?”

    Also, there’s RED OVER BLACK: Black Slavery Among the Cherokee Indians, by Halliburton.

    Then there’s this paragraph from TOWNHALL’s “Six inconvenient truths about US and slavery:

    SLAVERY EXISTED ONLY BRIEFLY, AND IN LIMITED LOCALES, IN THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLIC – INVOLVING ONLY A TINY PERCENTAGE OF THE ANCESTORS OF TODAY’S AMERICANS. The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution put a formal end to the institution of slavery 89 years after the birth of the Republic; 142 years have passed since this welcome emancipation. Moreover, the importation of slaves came to an end in 1808 (as provided by the Constitution), a mere 32 years after independence, and slavery had been outlawed in most states decades before the Civil War. Even in the South, more than 80% of the white population never owned slaves. Given the fact that the majority of today’s non-black Americans descend from immigrants who arrived in this country after the War Between the States, only a tiny percentage of today’s white citizens – perhaps as few as 5% — bear any authentic sort of generational guilt for the exploitation of slave labor. Of course, a hundred years of Jim Crow laws, economic oppression and indefensible discrimination followed the theoretical emancipation of the slaves, but those harsh realities raise different issues from those connected to the long-ago history of bondage.

    Finally, there’s the inconvenient truth that it was white people who did away with slavery in the US.

    Whatever. I know that I’m gettin truly weary of hearin about it all. Seemed to me we were doin pretty well in this category before Barry & Mooch came along.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. bocopro says:

    Liked by 4 people

  3. Well, I’m gonna wait a while to comment.
    Bocopro nailed it. I might post his comments to FB.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. kidme37 says:

    How about we choose 2019 which doesn’t have much in common with 1619 or 1776, but it is our time. What are we as a nation going to do with it. Not much good, generally speaking, is my guess.

    The people that need to be leading the charge, mainly educators, media, government, are all on the side of evil.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. bunkerville says:

    Sad part is that from what I have read, slavery was on the way out in the U.S. Setting aside the reasons, the issue has nothing to do with what is happening today. It is a red herring that Marxists are using to dissolve our Republic… all the rest is just conversation.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. peter3nj says:

    How about 1989 when Ronald Reagan stepped off the stage. (I have always believed Bush I threw the 92 election for some nefarious reason up for speculation.) The next couple of election cycles may see an almost complete purge of conservative politicians…. should it even take that long.


  7. peter3nj says:

    How about 1989 when Ronald Reagan stepped off the stage. (I have always believed Bush I threw the 92 election for some nefarious reason up for speculation.) The next couple of election cycles may see an almost complete purge of conservative politicians…. should it even take that long.


  8. MAL says:

    But if the above facts were known and there was no controversy, guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson couldn’t make a living, to say nothing about the lazy ones that hopped on the benefits wagon that gives them everything without working for it.
    I particularly want to point out I learned a lot from Bocopro’s posting today (per usual, i might add).
    Thanks, Ron.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. geeez2014 says:

    Bocopro “Finally, there’s the inconvenient truth that it was white people who did away with slavery in the US.:”
    And who do you believe did away with slavery, fought in the Civil War, worked on the Underground Railroad (along with Blacks)?
    Yes, FOR SURE..we were far better off before the Obamas in this respect….
    I totally believe that our new problems started on the front porch of Professor Henry Gates, whose neighbor somehow didn’t know she had a Black man living across the street (?) and called the cops because Gates was trying to get into his own house but had trouble with his key. All went VERY well, Prof Gates said the cops were great, but SOMEHOW Obama heard about this (HOW?! WHY? The PRES heard about a problem within minutes of its happening?) and went nuts about the WHITE COPS….only to find out he was WRONG…then he held a Beer Summit to make himself look so understanding..”the peace maker”…it was after the miracle that the neighbor didn’t know her neighbor, and Obama heard within minutes that this had happened, that Ferguson and Baltimore and other things started happening. Coincidence? I’m beginning to think “NO”….I’m beginning to think it was planned….I will now put my Tin Hat on 🙂
    THANK YOU for that information; YES, Blacks DID have slaves………and if someone had REAL GUTS, they’d write about this. I have been told by Black historians that White plantation owners even gave plots of land to their Black slaves to farm and earn money on their own and then the plantation owners would often borrow cash from THEM!! 🙂 Oh, the truth hurts, doesn’t it?


    I was crushed this morning watching OUTNUMBERED…when they were talking about taking down the Jefferson Memorial and replacing it with Harriet Tubman ….who does deserve something, by the way, she was amazing. Molly Hemingway, Harris Fulkner, GIllian what’s-her name, Juan the jerk Williams, and Kennedy ALL said that yes, Jefferson kept a lot of slaves, but shouldn’t come down. NOT ONE MENTIONED (HELLO??) ANY OF THE GOOD THINGS JEFFERSON DID DO. NOT ONE.

    KID; 1776 is working hard TODAY……..but, sadly, you’re right, 1619 is, too…even harder, with the NY Times as its parent.

    PETER, I believe that, because of our school indoctrination, it won’t take long before NO CONSERVATIVES WILL HAVE A VOICE. NONE. It’s why I often say how bad it is our kids are indoctrinated and we, the older ones who were raised LOVING this country, are dying off……..you are so right.
    SO, I guess we’re going to let it happen. If it wasn’t for TRUMP, it might have been over 3 years ago.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. geeez2014 says:

    I wrote this on Facebook’s post of Joe Collins, a terrific Black Conservative trying to beat Maxine Waters in her fight to keep her seat here in LA

    “Oh, wait. I’m a very proud Republican. That means I should be racist, right? WHAT WAS I THINKING URGING JOE ON? (Smile…sarcasm, of course) I’m just so sad and so tired of being told I’m things I AM NOT. Go, JOE!!! I’ll work for you!!”

    I GOT THIS ASTONISHING COMMENT which represents more Blacks than I think we realize:

    Alicia Miller Z… you’re not racist! For the record, I’m very black and pro-black, but, anti-bullshit! With the 87 people shot in Chicago over the weekend, you notice BLM is no where to be seen! Apparently, black lives only matter when they’re taken by the police. Please don’t listen to ANYBODY black trying to convince you you’re a racist and that you should apologize for being born white. Until we stop killing each other, we don’t have anything to complain and protest about…

    I RESPONDED TO HER WITH: (I was near tears, of course, after reading hers):

    “Alicia, I was being sarcastic but yes, we are being told we’re all racist and it doesn’t feel good..it hurts!! THANK YOU for this comment from you……you are quite a woman! And what REALLY bugs me is that BLM is doing NOTHING to help anyone…just promoting division, and that’s so bad. God bless you, honey!! And thanks again”


  11. MAL says:

    I just posted the site in Bocopro’s comments to my Facebook so more folks can see it.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Baysider says:

    Great facts BP – and Mal, the other side doesn’t care about facts. They don’t value truth, why bother them with facts.

    And this trope about slavery ‘building’ the country. It was more of a stumbling block and kept a resource rich south from advancing because of the habit of a lifestyle dependent on others doing the drudge work. Wait … am I talking about 1820 or 2020?


  13. geeez2014 says:

    ED, I hope you do put all that on FB….


  14. I think the world of Bob Woodson!

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Bocopro,
    I have nabbed your comments to post front and center at my blog on Monday, July 13.


  16. geeez2014 says:

    BAYSIDER “And this trope about slavery ‘building’ the country. It was more of a stumbling block and kept a resource rich south from advancing because of the habit of a lifestyle dependent on others doing the drudge work”

    Who would have done that work had slaves not done it for, basically, nothing?

    AOW: GOOD YOU’RE POSTING THAT….it’s a keeper, for sure, and I ADORE Bob Woodson, too! WHAT AN AMAZING MAN.
    Did you see the comment above from the Black woman on FB to me? What a great gal.

    ALSO: MUSTANG has severely hurt his hand……he’ll be fine and has good care, but please keep him in your prayers! Thanks…


  17. geeez2014 says:

    MAL! I don’t see Boco’s info on your FB site I just found….I only see a near-naked showgirl! 🙂 hA!!!


  18. MAL says:

    Z, I just checked my facebook and it was there. Are you sure you were on my “page”?
    (And no, I didn’t see any near naked showgirls, either…………darn!)

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Baysider says:

    Who would have done the work? Where do I start?

    First of all, what would have been the symbols of wealth and prosperity? Hard to say, but looking at the north historically gives clues. Even when slavery existed there it was never the symbol of wealth it became in the south. In fact, the first states to free slaves tended to be the first to build wealth – after slaves freed (NY, Pennsylvania, e.g. which became big commercial centers). Different incentives and valuing different evidences of status would impact the stability of a slave system.

    There were no end of other immigrants ready and willing to get a foot in the new world, as evidenced from the 1830’s on. And long before that in the 1600’s as indentured servants on typically 5-year contracts with passage paid and released at the end of their contract with basic living stuffs. This system was abused, but the example isn’t to address perfection but alternate ways to get work done.

    These ‘freebies’ (and slaves were anything but free to own – ask anyone who ever got a “free” puppy. That was the last part of “free” they saw!) skewed the true cost of production in a manner akin to modern day price supports in agriculture, creating a dominant oligarchy dependent on the inputs of others. (The inputs ConAgra et al depend on, e.g., are YOUR tax dollars, a nicer variation on enforced servitude.)

    How would markets have been organized and demand shifted? How would the role of labor differed? Again, speculation but history provides a clue in the years immediately following outbreaks of the black death. It essentially pulled the foundation out from under the system of serfdom, tied to the land, as serf survivors in regions denuded of worker bees were a hot commodity in the labor market and could press for a change in legal position. While laws were passed and so on to stop this tidal wave, it was, nevertheless, a tidal wave that began a monumental shift in production and labor inputs.

    So many variables … But I have no doubt that functional markets and their economy would be worked out through the decisions of thousands of individuals as it has been in the rest of the history of advance civilizations.


  20. Baysider says:

    And for Mustang 🙏

    Liked by 1 person

  21. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider, I disagree on some of this, but it’s sure an interesting conversation.
    the Southern slavery certainly was different in rural plantations than it would be cities of the East….
    I suppose immigrants could have done that work.
    The problem was that slaves didn’t read, didn’t speak English for a while (You’d have to convince me that all Black kids speak English even these days….my GOSH, I want to cry when I hear them interviewed and almost can’t understand them…they’re not stupid, it’s our schools!), had no skills as they came here and went on the auction block. They had to work…pulling a team was what they could do, sadly. Some plantation owners kept them from learning to read!

    Slaves weren’t free, of course….I meant the cost of maintaining them…probably no salary, if at all, and crappy bungalows to barely subsist in..


  22. geeez2014 says:

    I thought juxtaposing the two statements of 1776 and 1619 was important and fascinating…who’d go for the 1619 but a rabid victim nut?

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Wow. Mal is a playah!

    Liked by 1 person

  24. MAL says:

    ED, “I USE-TA DID!” (but not no mo!). ;o)

    Z, you say thats not mine. Why? It has the big picture of me, my bio, all the other stuff I’ve posted. I don’t understand what you mean or you’re seeing.


  25. geeez2014 says:

    MAL! WHAT? I did NOT say it’s not yours…look above…I was shocked because it is so clearly yours and yet you said you don’t see the near-naked dancer RIGHT THERE on your blog!!!!!!
    You’re driving me nuts 🙂 Yes, it’s yours…………I don’t know who SHE belongs to 🙂


  26. geeez2014 says:



  27. MAL says:

    OH! Okay, Z. I get it now. I saw the pic you mean after I scaled down a bit more. That lady is Margo Young, our dance leader. That was her in the 70’s when she was lead dancer with “The Follies” on The Strip. She is still good, despite having fought and beat stage 4 cancer some years back. She was born in London, left home for Paris at age 16, danced there and N.Y. then Vegas. Quite a gal. She and husband Jack (who was a stage engineer for years on The Strip) knew and worked with everybody in show business. Sinatra and the Rat Pack, Streisand, Elvis, Ann Margaret, the Beatles, etc, etc, etc. They are good friends and such fine people who know their Bible and are very religious, believe it or not.
    Sounds strange, right?

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Z,
    Did you see the comment above from the Black woman on FB to me? What a great gal.

    I haven’t been on FB much the past few days. I’ll have to check.


  29. Heidianne says:

    I have also posted the link to this post and bocopro’s first comment on my FB page.


  30. geeez2014 says:

    Heidianne, please never use my name on your FB site..geeez is fine, of course, but many say “Thanks Z*****e” and I NEVER use my name here……and don’t want the Facebook connection. Thanks so much.


  31. heidianne says:

    I apologize, should I not have linked your post? I used only “Z” on my FB post with the link to this post, nothing more. I am aware of how protective you are of your privacy and would never intentionally use your full name…


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