R. Lee Wrights might have a point….you think so?

Pursuant to our discussion here yesterday, here’s a good one from a Libertarian which I just saw on Facebook:

“Democracy?  I want nothing to do with  a system which operates on the premise that  my rights don’t exist simply because I am outnumbered.”       R. Lee Wrights.

That is REALLY something to think about…MUSTANG, particularly after your comment about our maybe having to ‘back off a bit’ from democracy.

 

THOUGHTS, people?

Z

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20 Responses to R. Lee Wrights might have a point….you think so?

  1. bocopro says:

    Wow . . . what a topic. Endless possibilities for discussion. A few observations:

    One problem with pure democracy is that instead of weighing and analyzing votes, it merely counts them.

    Democracies tend to collapse when voters realize that they can get freebies from government by mob rule.

    In a modern democracy, winners are chosen by popularity contests funded by special interest groups. Essentially we live in an oligarchy.

    In times of crisis, democratic rule strongly resembles lynch mobs and looting parties.

    Most of the time, less than half the eligible voters bother to fill out a ballot. The ones who do then vote straight ticket the same way Dad or Grampa did or whimsically, based on ignorance of the issues, how well they slept the night before, how their breakfast is sitting in their bellies, and the last song they heard in the car before turning off the engine to go to the booth.

    Most of my grandchildren refuse to vote except on local issues, considering state and federal elections to be rigged and meaningless.

    My wife, a naturalized citizen, doesn’t vote because she believes that to be a politician is to be greedy and corrupt, so what difference does it make which one spends taxpayer money on what pet project.

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  2. Mustang says:

    I tend to agree with Wrights (who passed away in 2017); and the information offered by Ron is in line with my view, as well, which I probably inherited from my grandmother — who in her entire 98 years, voted once. The saying goes, “You not only have a right to vote, but you also have a responsibility, as a citizen, to vote.” Yeah. Choosing not to vote is a voting decision. As I understand it, certain European countries have compulsory voting — and while that sounds nice (requiring everyone to participate), to demand citizens to cast a ballot on issues they don’t understand is ludicrous.

    Certain members of the SCOTUS may agree with Wrights because the issues and concerns extend beyond Wrights’ suggestion that his rights stop at the point where everyone else shuts him down — whether by voting or as in many university lecture halls, by shouting down anyone whose views you do not share. That is a concern, of course — but so too is a system whereby unelected bureaucrats decide what you will do, when you will do it, and how much you will pay for their “opinions.” Believe me, I don’t want to hear “the science is in” one more time. The science has never been “in.” And Wrights and others who lean libertarian, are correct to question the government by asking, “Just who in the hell do you think you are?”

    Liked by 1 person

  3. peter3nj says:

    As those in power work overtime to create a national pandemic out of gay men spreading a disease through what sounds like beastiality let’s stop and reflect upon on how the Obamacare vote was bought with payola is more than enough to convince any thinking person that our system is beyond rigged and one’s vote is worth next to nothing. The examples of a failed system are never ending.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. geeez2014 says:

    BOCOPRO….you said it here “In a modern democracy, winners are chosen by popularity contests funded by special interest groups. Essentially we live in an oligarchy.”

    You throw in possible voter tampering as I BELIEVE happened for Biden (I know ballot harvesting happened…many know that) and it’s all you mention and more. It’s those special interest groups PAYING for the shenanigans and for the media to keep it quiet. We DO live in an oligarchy, I believe that’s right.
    So it’s not that the larger amount of voters who voted one particular way won (as used to be done)… it’s those being overwhelmed by another party with more money, more cunning, smart enough to make the Right look stupid for mentioning voter fraud. That takes talent.

    I know Conservatives who didn’t vote because they didn’t like Trump’s personality; As I said to one of them recently “So you didn’t vote and we lost our country”.

    MUSTANG: Yes, Wrights and other libertarians who think like he does definitely are correct to ask that… And when we had one voting DAY and one BALLOTT, and we were sure elections were legal, I’d have argued that the response would have been “I think, I know, I’m the person who’s opinions and solutions were most highly regarded by the majority who voted for me.”

    You mention Europe….In Germany, at least, they vote on a WEEKEND so more can vote (no more of what I’ve heard at precincts like “I live far and won’t get home in time to vote, can I vote here since I work nearvb?” “Sure, just sign the PROVISIONAL BALLOT” So that person might get to vote twice (I heard this maybe 15 years ago and provisional ballots are popular and NOBODY READS THEM, so that person voted multiple times even back then, but it’s far rarer than what we’ve got going now. Germans don’t get weeks and weeks to vote, they get one weekend….and they use an ID CARD to vote…once that’s put in the card machine, it can’t vote again. Period. If we come up with protective ways to vote, the Right will be accused of STANDING IN THE WAY OF MINORITY VOTERS. Proving again that the Left is a bigger group of racists than any Rightwinger ever dreamt of being.

    PETER….the other day I heard that ‘CHILDREN IN AMERICA ARE GETTING MONKEY POX”: only to learn that there have been TWO CHILDREN in the whole country, both of whom are in contact with gay men, their kids or something. Headline made it sound like every family has a child with monkey pox. I, too, wonder why the big hoopla.

    If so many of us know there are voting problems (harvesting, too many mail-in ballots, hippies suddenly working at precincts when they were ALL elderly community members who didn’t have to work for most of my voting years), where are our representatives who KNOW WE”RE RIGHT? As someone on FB recently commented “we’re not going to have a red wave in November… NOBODY WORKED TO PROTECT OUR VOTING AFTER TRUMP LOST”

    I pray that’s not true, but………

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  5. geeez2014 says:

    The Left seems to be WAY AHEAD in donations for left wing senators and congressmen….very depressing…..

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  6. Baysider says:

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Franklin

    So I prefer a republic. Perfect? No. But we made ours with stumbling blocks to mob rule built in – starting with NOT directly electing senators. Starting with 3 branches of governance set up to be at odds with each other by design by men who understood human nature well. I wish they had set a constitutional limit on the number of days congress could convene – a la our discussion yesterday where every jot of accepted behavior has to be spelled out. But these men set up a governance that was meant for a god-fearing people who as a group operated on a more-or-less common ethical foundation.

    Mustang is right. Choosing not to vote is a decision. I understand the impulse – especially now in California where pretty much only left-wing Democrats appear on the final ballot (it is no longer a 2-party+ system if there is anyone left who does not know that by now).

    Still, we are responsible because our structure still gives us the legal power. It’s just been corrupted by influence – like ALL powers go. We are not in the position of Paul the Apostle’s time, where you had no voice in selecting the king but still had the duty to obey the king. We ARE the voice and must act like it in some fashion – or we will be judged for dereliction of duty. Sometimes that is an important down ballot race or proposition. And, yes, I understand better now as I’ve lived through so many cycles of corrupted elections and perverted truth, why some choose to “make a statement” by writing in their perfect candidate who has zero chance of winning. Understood.

    But that brought us Bill Clinton and put his harridan wife in a position where she could thrust herself into positions of doing serious damage.** We have the duty and obligation to be vigilant and make our best effort even in places where the choices are stacked. No. I don’t vote for every office.

    I disagree with “get out the vote” campaigns when it’s the wolves herding the sheep to the polls. Now, they just mark their ballots for them, or do it electronically in batches of 100’s of thousands at 3 am. I had quite the discussion once with a mindless young lady who came to my door to enlist help in a “get out the vote” campaign. I wanted an “informed voter” campaign. She did not know how to process that idea. She was just into getting ballots marked (in a jurisdiction that votes 75% Democrat she picked one center-right thinker to engage in this discussion!).

    **Remember Ross Perot? Yeah – that vote for him had a consequence. BTW, that’s why “the bankers” pushed Teddy Roosevelt to run as a 3rd party when Wilson had low chances. It took away votes from the better candidate, Taft, one of few who cut back the powers of president and stood squarely in their way. They branded him a “Puzzlewit” – an assignation that loosely meant “Village Idiot” – when he was, in fact, fully cognizant of the evil designs afoot and had the moxie to rally troops to thwart them. (Maybe we could resurrect that today for the current occupant of the WH.) Boy! did that THAT have consequences – Jekyll Island.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Baysider says:

    I always understood the reason our elections were on a Tuesday was because they wanted voters sober and/or many rural voters had to travel and overnight in order to vote, and didn’t want to be doing that on a Sunday. (For some a vote was a 3-day affair. Poor babies today.) Don’t know much is truth or legend, but they sound plausible, especially when you know about some of the traditional drinking practices in England that carried over into Mondays at work before the industrial revolution.

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  8. geeez2014 says:

    BAYSIDER, I believe this, too “We have the duty and obligation to be vigilant and make our best effort even in places where the choices are stacked. No. I don’t vote for every office.” And no, I don’t vote for every office, either…..although I’ve been known to vote for the Republican (given a chance, here in CA) like for judges, even if I know nothing about him/her…I do try to research a bit, but they say what one would expect, nothing worthwhile, usually.

    If drinking was the reason for not voting on a Sunday, the German vote must be COMPLETELY INEBRIATED considering their drinking habits!!
    Ya, I believe one weekend is a good choice…………nobody can say “I was too busy at work” , etc etc.

    AND we must get rid of PROVISIONAL BALLOTS which many sign, vote somewhere else, and NOBODY stands up in Norwalk where all the votes go and asks “SO, look at ALL your provisional ballots….did a Suzy Johnson on Maple St vote anywhere else?” Ridiculous. It’s total fraud 😦

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  9. MAL says:

    Bay, I never thought about the distances the ranchers and farmers living in rural areas had to travel to vote back in the 1800’s, yet they found a way to get to town and vote. Now we complain we can’t vote because we have a hangnail!
    And yeah, I remember Ross Perot and his famous saying:
    “IF THE ENGINE DOESN’T WORK, JUST LIFT THE HOOD AND FIX IT”.

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  10. Baysider says:

    YES to how provisional ballots are handled. I had to vote provisionally once because my absentee did not arrive. I ordered it because I expected to be away. Then I wasn’t. But now it was in the ‘mail’ (never arrived – ever) and I could not vote regular. So provisional it was. Mr. B handled tons of provisional ballots as the precinct captain – and with his BS detector was pretty sure most were BS.

    In a farming culture more people traveled to vote than anyone has in years (except of course those busy little termites you’ve seen at the polls, getting instructions on going from poll to poll to vote all day long PROVISIONALLY). I’ve read the charming stories of 3-day trips: one to get there, one to vote and visit and pick up supplies, and the final day to return home. Weekends and Mondays were out of the question because you could not travel or vote on Sunday. I’m not sure the Germans had anything on their English cousins for drinking each other under the table. Traditionally. It was German influence on English Christmas that shifted the holiday from being a drunken carnival. I think that’s changed, sadly. I’ve read about more binge drinking in Germany now. All that fine beer isn’t a bad thing in moderation.

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  11. geeez2014 says:

    BAYSIDER….Provisional ballots just aren’t counted. Period. Wendy’s worked in Norwalk election night (back in the day of ‘election night’ and nobody stood up and asked about names on the ballots..it’s a stupid hoax).

    I’ve actually seen ‘busy little termites’, as I’ve mentioned here, on Santa Monica Blvd on Obama ele ction day…heard one very pretty Black girl saying “Where do I go now?” Into her cell phone as she approached the nursing home I was to vote in…as I passed a Black woman pushing a wheel chair of someone who couldn’t say her whole name let alone vote honestly on her own.

    I’m just saying that TODAY, it’s a very wise thing for Germany to allow both Sat and Sun for voting…….drinking or no drinking. ANd I HOPE TO HELL America can get back to VOTING ON TUESDAY…ONE day, PERIOD…..

    Like

  12. Baysider says:

    Oops. I understood that provisionals were not being segregated and verified — not uncounted. That’s not a bad thing if that’s what she saw.

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  13. geeez2014 says:

    BAYSIDER…. Provisional Ballots, if ALL are counted, are a very bad thing. This way 10 ‘Suzy Johnson’s’ can vote as long as she signed a provisional ballot at all the places where she voted. Voila.
    I’m sorry I miswrote that….”they don’t count legitimately” is my point but I wasn’t at all clear….ONE PERSON can live in Pomona and drive all over LA and vote…just saunter in, give their “I don’t live nearby and won’t make it home to vote in time” spiel and that’s that…….
    a very bad thing.

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  14. geeez2014 says:

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/twitter-blows-up-over-kamala-harris-introducing-herself-pronouns-description-clothing

    OH, this is JUST TOO GOOD. “I am Kamala Harris, my pronouns are she/her, I’m wearing a blue pantsuit..” IS SHE KIDDING? Check the link out!!!

    Like

  15. Baysider says:

    I expected your link to REALLY take me to The Onion. Oy.

    Like

  16. Baysider says:

    Then I read more. “disproportionate impacts on people with disabilities.” What “people” would those be Ms. Harris? Is she saying women with disabilities get a much higher proportion of abortions? What I see here is the typical Marxist playbook of creating division where there is none, just any gratuitous opportunity to take a swipe to set people against each other. They just do it as naturally as breathing.

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  17. geeez2014 says:

    BAYSIDER! FUNNY, isn’t it.
    AND YES~! I had the same thought “HOW MANY WOMEN WITH DISABILITIES GET ABORTIONS?” Enough for a panel discussion? They are REALLY grabbing at ANY straw that makes abortion look like EVERYONE’S BLESSED ANSWER!!!!!
    Yes, “ANY gratuitous opportunity ..” perfect.

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  18. geeez2014 says:

    by the way, BAYSIDER…..what does the clothing have to do with anything? They have to say “I’m wearing a blue pantsuit” to FIND Kamala Harris, or?

    Some of this is SO NUTS it escapes me!

    And has ANYONE ever seen Kamala wear anything BUT PANTS? Or HIllary? Is this WOMAN POWER? They can’t wear what’s traditionally women’s clothing ??!!!

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  19. Baysider says:

    I read the clothing call was for the sake of blind participants so they could picture it.

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  20. Mustang says:

    A blind person may not know what blue looks like … so such a statement only rubs the salt on the wound. Leftists haven’t a clue.

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