Charlottesville….why?

I say this not to be unkind but to make sure you know I am not publishing this video because I am a John MacArthur fan.  I am not.  I’ve met with him in a very small group and have had lunch with him…not a fan.  But HERE in this video?  HE GETS IT RIGHT.   I totally agree with him.  100%.

See what you think.

Z

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22 Responses to Charlottesville….why?

  1. Mustang says:

    What I think … hmmmm.

    Unlike George Bush, I do not have the ability to look into men’s souls, so I cannot say whether any of Charlottesville’s demonstrators had black hearts. I do realize that there are some who think that mankind is naturally evil, but I am not one of them. If it is true that mankind is naturally corrupt, then it must also be true that only a totalitarian government is able to force mankind to behave properly … and then, of course, proper behavior must depend on how the government defines it.

    As an aside, MacArthur offers us “his” Biblical explanation, overlooking the fact that God created mankind in his own image. If mankind is evil it is because men have learned these behaviors. On the other hand, if we are talking about society rather than individual human beings, then we could make the argument that social corruption is enabled by progressive government policy. What I am hoping for is a just society, but justice comes to us through how we entreat with one another as individuals, and this business of collectivization is awash in false narratives.

    We do not cure past discrimination by imposing a new discrimination, and what we did observe at Charlottesville is a blatant example of reverse discrimination. I should add to this that racism is a particularly pernicious form of collectivism but a useful and oft-used progressive tool since the days of Democrat Woodrow Wilson. The left may deny this, of course, but they are liars—and not very bright ones, at that. What we are observing is the legacy of Barack Obama, who was always a racist himself.

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  2. bocopro says:

    Nah . . . gonna go with Rousseau on this one: mankind is by nature good until his society gets too crowded and people start treading upon each other’s toes in quest for the material benefits of comfort, technology, and wealth.

    Wordsworth had much the same thing to say in his fatally boring and constantly repeated thesis that when man stops simply being IN the world and starts to become OF the world his soul is corrupted, and that’s why we have Purgatory.

    The strongest motivator, or instinct, is self-preservation. Period. And the second strongest is preservation of the species, or sex drive, if you prefer. Leave people alone and they won’t attack you. Threaten their survival and eventually they’ll go for the carotid, or femoral, whichever is more accessible.

    I think the question was a setup, a plant. He’s a persuasive speaker, but he was absolutely prepared for that particular question, even referring to his notes in his “spontaneous” response.

    I do agree with the 3 innate restrictions placed on mankind by God: conscience, parenting, and civil authority. But except for the Middle East, where slaughter is indelibly written on the DNA, I firmly believe that when people have enough to eat and aren’t always up in each other’s faces because they’re crowded, they don’t want war, or even killing.

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  3. Somewhere between total corruption and noble savage, man is born corrupt.
    Cain didn’t kill Abel out of necessity.
    Men and women will die for family out of love, without Christian regeneration.
    And then do something morally reprehensible.
    Bocopro said:
    “I firmly believe that when people have enough to eat and aren’t always up in each other’s faces because they’re crowded, they don’t want war, or even killing.”
    Somebody always wants more.

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  4. Tom says:

    Hillary Called President Trump Creepy, I Wonder If She Had
    Ever Met Her Husband Bill Before?

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  5. John M. Berger says:

    Aside from the general philosophical discussion, in the instant case, Mustang nails it: ” What we are observing is the legacy of Barack Obama, who was always a racist himself.” And from a previous post Kid warns: “we have not yet begun to discover the damage barry has done to America and the world for that matter.” To that end we must brace for the potential of all manner of mass irrational behavior which seems to be un-folding daily and for an indeterminate time to come?

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  6. Kid says:

    I think a lot of these groups are rebranded black panthers.

    I think the African gene comes with a quite violent streak right out of the box.

    What Ive noticed or focused on over the last 8 years is the concept of how much of a bad idea it is to give a loser an inch. obama gave every loser category an inch a day. he convinced them that if they are not rich, or white middle class heterosexuals than America owes you something.

    Well, I owe no one nothing all you special people. Don’t like your life? too bad, suck it up.

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  7. -FJ says:

    @bocopro,

    Nah . . . gonna go with Rousseau on this one: mankind is by nature good until his society gets too crowded and people start treading upon each other’s toes in quest for the material benefits of comfort, technology, and wealth.

    In that case, I have to go with the Marquis de Sade, who spent his entire career disavowing and attempting to disprove everything that Rousseau said. Actually I prefer Nietzsche, that man is naturally NEITHER good nor bad. He simply desires and strives after “POWER. 😉

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  8. bocopro says:

    FJ — and THAT’s why we have horse races.

    I still say the average guy is pretty much laid back and satisfied ’til somebody dumps on his doorstep, then he goes ballistic.

    That’s prolly 90% of adult humans on the planet.

    The average psycho, a la Charlie Manson, or megalomaniac, a la Schickelgruber, is pretty much homicidal ’til somebody pops a cap in his ass.

    That’s maybe .5% of human population. And if you piled up the remaining 10% vertically, the stack wouldn’t reach a conclusion.

    I’m no Will Rogers; I’ve met lotsa people I didn’t like. But so far I h’ain’t kilt none of ’em. On t’other hand, they IS a big ol’ buncha useless wads of protoplasm which could do with some down-home killin.

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  9. Mal says:

    I also disagree with his concept that mankind is naturally evil. If we were, new born babies would also be, and we know they aren’t. They are totally trusting and know no fear or biases. They acquire it from society as they develop through their experiences.
    However, he does make some sense with the rest of his speech about how the demonstrations and riots are not about slavery, etc. but frustration with their own lives taken out on society. And yes, as pointed out above, Obama had a big hand in what is going on today. I still don’t understand why the law enforcement in the rioting cities haven’t been more aggressive in arresting and charging these people…..and making them pay for all the damages they have caused, either monetarily or through mandatory public service doing cleanup work, etc.
    One way or another, make ’em pay for the damages resulting from “their rights.”

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  10. bocopro says:

    Oh, and incidentally . . . like many retired military guys, I’ve had power. In the 70s I was the Director of ET”A” School in Great Lakes (Navy) and later Discipline Officer for the entire schools command.

    As director of the school I had over a hundred E-5 thru E-9 staff reporting to me and a student population of at least a thousand on any given day. As Discipline Officer, I was constantly making decisions concerning individuals’ future in the USN because of behavioral infractions which I investigated, formalized, and made the decision to dismiss or take to NJP or court martial.

    Those, and other jobs which followed, gave me enormous positional authority over other people’s lives, and frankly I just got tired of it. Some people revel in power positions and seek to augment their status. It changes people.

    I got to the point at which I often wondered if laughter at my witticisms was genuine or brown-nosing. Ditto when I was faculty and making cute remarks in my literature and drama classes. Often the grade I awarded a student’s effort heavily impacted his eligibility for various post-grad programs, and sometimes even placed his BA or BS in jeopardy.

    No sweat while I was doing those things, but I clearly saw how they changed other people in similar positions. My grandfather gave us lots of distilled advice he’d collected in his many years and having raised 8 children during the Great Depression. One piece was this:

    “Boy, if you ever find yourself in a job which is changing you into someone you wouldn’t want to sit down and have dinner with, stop doing that and find another job.”

    Took his advice, both in my military and university faculty jobs: retired before I became a factor in the problem instead of part of its solution.

    Another profound bit of wisdom he gave me when I was WAY too young to understand was, “Son, don’t ever sleep with the hired help.”

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  11. Kid says:

    bocopro, Someone had to do it. Sounds like some others could have done a lot worse.

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  12. geeez2014 says:

    He comes from a Christian viewpoint, obviously….there are too many verses which tell us we’re born in sin…Adam and Eve accomplished that for us, but I do believe we have good in us, too. We don’t have to learn selfishness, greed, etc…we are taught not to be that way if our parents are good people

    Having said that, the part I totally agree with him on in re to Charlottesville is we have a whole generation of young people who’ve been taught a twisted way of looking at right from wrong…I believe the hideous problems in those protests, and even in the knocking down of the statues, is justification of anger….I have often thought that when I see race riots it’s less about righteousness and more about a great excuse to mouth off and hurt others. So I believe MacArthur’s right on that.

    mustang…yes, total reverse discrimination…and they’re not finished yet!!!

    bocopro; there was no doubt in my mind this question was planned in advance. I think I’d have adored your grandpa!

    Mal, I would LOVE to believe we’re all born good, too…but we’re told we’re not, and it’s pretty clear we’re not. I believe you’re 100% right on the rest of your comment.

    FJ…Nietsche is probably right if you’re not looking at it from the Biblical point of view, which MacArthur is, of course.

    THE BASIC THING I BELIEVE WE TAKE OUT OF MAC ARTHUR’S WORDS IS THAT CHARLOTTESVILLE WAS LESS ABOUT RACE AND MORE ABOUT GETTING ONE’S WAY, HAVING LEARNED ONE IS SPECIAL, HAVING FIGURED OUT HOW DESTRUCTION AND VIOLENCE CAN MAKE YOU FEEL RIGHTEOUS, HAVING LEARNED COMPLAINING AND DESTROYING CAN GET YOU WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, OR AT LEAST SYMPATHY FROM THE LEFT….OR AT LEAST GET YOU IN THE NEWS FOR A WHILE.

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  13. Baysider says:

    D-accord. A rare disagreement with Mal and Mustang. God did create man in His image, yes. Man was free to make decisions to do what he was not created to do – to worship God and give Him glory. And he did. It spills out in all sorts of ways of rebellion, anger and rejection of higher authority over you. John’s right: when conscience, family and legitimate authority fails you get chaos.

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  14. Baysider says:

    Bad syntax: Man was free to make decisions to NOT do what he was created to do. Whew!

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  15. Baysider says:

    That said, I would not “go easy” on the vandals, the chaos creators. As we discussed yesterday there are good people on both sides of this issue what with many statues erected almost 100 years after the civil war, just as the civil rights movement was gathering steam. But you cannot tolerate this chaos.

    My southern grandfather believed in “separate but equal” which he explained as “our” school and “their” school, etc. When the civil rights movement became visible in the streets in the early 60’s he told me that. Then he added “but the problem is, chile, the negrah has been separate but he’s not been equal. This [the movement] is a better way.” He supported it. Not surprising he was also run out of the south by the klan because he wouldn’t play ball when they rose up again in the 20’s. He was a very fair man constrained by his time.

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  16. Baysider says:

    PS: Mr. B is enjoying is workout now. You’ll understand. 🙂

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  17. Mal says:

    Well, you’re right about the scriptures, of course, Z. Yes, we are born into sin, but I don’t believe the baby is sinful until after he is born. Then he enters this sinful world, is what I meant. Or perhaps the baby in the womb is already sinful because of the body it is in, esp. if the mother is on drugs, etc? Who knows?

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  18. Mustang says:

    I’m with Mal. I believe that God has blessed us in so many ways, among his greatest gifts is salvation and freedom of choice. Until a child reaches the age of accountability, they are guiltless … but after that, He holds us all accountable for our decisions. Behavior is learned, not inherited … so if we have a large segment of our society who are hedonists, it is because they have learned selfishness and chosen that path for themselves. On the other hand, what do I know? I’m a sinner.

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  19. geeez2014 says:

    Baysider, VERY glad to hear that about Mr. B…EXCELLENT. I enjoyed our lunch yesterday.
    No, we mustn’t go easy on them…I don’t believe MacArthur’s giving anybody a pass for being born into sin; quite the opposite…as you say, man is welcome to make his own decisions and those in Charlottesville made BAD ones.

    Mal, that’s right, but I’m not talking for myself, just for Christian faith….already sinful but not because the mother is on drugs but because she’s also a human born into the fallen world because of Adam and Eve.

    Mustang, God certainly has blessed us! Did anything Baysider or I said above conflict with this?
    We might call all of us guiltless because most of the time we don’t mean to sin…Behavior is learned, sinful nature comes upon birth. “I’m a sinner.” exactly…and you are most definitely NOT the Lone Ranger 🙂

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  20. I recently referred to sin as inherent failure mode.
    It’ll show up eventually, just like it did in Eden.

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  21. -FJ says:

    @ Bocopro

    See ya at the races! 🙂

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